good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at 60fps obviously) but that things like 1280x800 @ 60hz (the crucial limit of the eoma68 spec) are fine, as is even 1366x768@60hz.
however he did kindly point out that if 720p video decoding [for which the full source is apparently available, which is also great] is attempted to be displayed on a 1366x768 LCD (or greater), there is a bandwidth memory limitation between the video decoder and the lcd buffer which would prooobably end up stalling slightly so that 30fps would be hard to achieve, at full-screen.
honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount of RAM (2Gbytes).
as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.
l.
On Tuesday 10. March 2015 17.36.17 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at 60fps obviously) but that things like 1280x800 @ 60hz (the crucial limit of the eoma68 spec) are fine, as is even 1366x768@60hz.
So it's the VPU that only supports 720p, rather than an actual video output limit of 720 lines. I suppose that's what they're trying to say on the following page:
http://www.smartqzwatch.co.uk/specifications/ingenic-jz4775-application- processor
Some day, even smartwatches will need more than 720p video playback for those who are bothered by that kind of thing. ;-)
however he did kindly point out that if 720p video decoding [for which the full source is apparently available, which is also great] is attempted to be displayed on a 1366x768 LCD (or greater), there is a bandwidth memory limitation between the video decoder and the lcd buffer which would prooobably end up stalling slightly so that 30fps would be hard to achieve, at full-screen.
honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount of RAM (2Gbytes).
I'd certainly be interested, and I would imagine that it would be a good alternative to the various non-open-hardware boards that have been emerging recently for the MIPS platform, as well as a solid alternative to certain popular ARM-based single-board computers.
as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.
I don't think I'd be aiming to be a sponsor as such, not being an organisation that would get involved because they see the commercial value in what you're doing, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing this card come to fruition, as indeed I am about the microdesktop and other things getting made.
Actually, with regard to the crowd-funding effort, was it going to include the IC1T board as well as the A20 board, and would the jz4775 board also join the crowd-funding line-up if successfully produced as a first revision?
Paul
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 10. March 2015 17.36.17 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
good news: after being very patient and persistent, my contact at ingenic put me in touch with a support engineer who confirmed that the limitation on the jz4775's reported maximum resolution (1280x720) is for the *video decoder* not the actual LCD output capabilities. the actual LCD output may go as high as something like 1700x1700 (not at 60fps obviously) but that things like 1280x800 @ 60hz (the crucial limit of the eoma68 spec) are fine, as is even 1366x768@60hz.
So it's the VPU that only supports 720p, rather than an actual video output limit of 720 lines. I suppose that's what they're trying to say on the following page:
http://www.smartqzwatch.co.uk/specifications/ingenic-jz4775-application- processor
in a way, yeah. what they don't say there is that the video decode engine source is fully available, and they also don't mention that flat-out the jz4775 i think uses only a maximum of 250mW which is awesome.
Some day, even smartwatches will need more than 720p video playback for those who are bothered by that kind of thing. ;-)
:)
honestly, i really don't see this as being a huge show-stopper enough to warrant exclusion of a low-cost SoC that could be the first FSF-Endorseable candidate to run GNU/Linux OSes with a decent amount of RAM (2Gbytes).
I'd certainly be interested, and I would imagine that it would be a good alternative to the various non-open-hardware boards that have been emerging recently for the MIPS platform, as well as a solid alternative to certain popular ARM-based single-board computers.
that's the idea. i'm kinda fed up with there being no even-25%-way-decent options at a reasonable price. sure you can get OMAP3 or AM Sitara SoCs but the only FSF-Endorseable ones come completely devoid of anything remotely useful for GPU or VPU acceleration.
as i've had the first revision PCB done nearly 4 months ago, that just leaves financing of the first revision jz4775 CPU Card to arrange. i have one potential sponsor: if anyone else would like to help out that would be great. we're likely looking at around $USD 1,500 for 5 PCBs.
I don't think I'd be aiming to be a sponsor as such, not being an organisation that would get involved because they see the commercial value in what you're doing, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing this card come to fruition, as indeed I am about the microdesktop and other things getting made.
me too, damnit! :) on that score we finally heard from the contract manufacturer, they aim to focus on getting the quotes.
Actually, with regard to the crowd-funding effort, was it going to include the IC1T board as well as the A20 board, and would the jz4775 board also join the crowd-funding line-up if successfully produced as a first revision?
YES. although it would be necessary to move sharp-ish. even if the 1st revision didn't work i'd really really still like to try to get it in, as the IC1T board only really supports android (cross-compiled) - the jz4775 actually stands a chance of being self-hosting (native debian packages and compiler).
l.
ok so already we have three offers of sponsorship and offers to help with OSes and board bring-up and so on for the jz4775 card. i'll confirm with my contact what the pricing is for 5 assembled units, and also verify with ingenic that the kernel source and u-boot source is available.
l.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
ok so already we have three offers of sponsorship and offers to help with OSes and board bring-up and so on for the jz4775 card. i'll confirm with my contact what the pricing is for 5 assembled units, and also verify with ingenic that the kernel source and u-boot source is available.
found u-boot: ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline. still searching...
l.
tis 2015-03-10 klockan 23:56 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
found u-boot: ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline. still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and u-boot at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6 (both git accessible only).
But i am starting to get allergic to vendors that don't attempt mainlining and who stay on some ancient versions of u-boot & kernel..
Regards Henrik
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström henrik@henriknordstrom.net wrote:
tis 2015-03-10 klockan 23:56 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
found u-boot: ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline. still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and u-boot at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6 (both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
But i am starting to get allergic to vendors that don't attempt mainlining and who stay on some ancient versions of u-boot & kernel..
:)
well, they don't all have the knowledge and experience of the larger vendors (the ones that typically pay linaro), and in this case they're literally the only decent FSF-Endorseable half-way decent processor around, so am prepared to give them a bit of slack.
l.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net writes:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström henrik@henriknordstrom.net wrote:
tis 2015-03-10 klockan 23:56 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
found u-boot: ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline. still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and u-boot at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6 (both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
Hi Luke,
I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
The kernel source was giving a 502 -- probably worth trying again.
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
Cheers, Phil.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Philip Hands phil@hands.com wrote:
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net writes:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Henrik Nordström henrik@henriknordstrom.net wrote:
tis 2015-03-10 klockan 23:56 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
found u-boot: ftp://5.39.83.46/mirror/ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/JZ4775/Mensa/linux/01uboot/
however the linux kernel source git repo appears to be offline. still searching...
You might want to get in touch with this https://github.com/ZubairLK/CI20_linux
It's JZ4780, but if I am not mistaken it is not too different.
ehh... the differences are where all the work is :) will have to ask them.
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and u-boot at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6 (both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
Hi Luke,
I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
The kernel source was giving a 502 -- probably worth trying again.
ah brilliant - thank you!
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
ok.
Cheers, Phil.
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
Hi Luke,
I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
l.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net writes:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
Hi Luke,
I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
I just managed to grab the kernel as well -- it's in the same place.
Cheers, Phil.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Philip Hands phil@hands.com wrote:
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net writes:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
Hi Luke,
I just cloned the uboot onto free for you:
free:~phil/src/git.ingenic.cn/
Tell me when you've shifted it somewhere more useful, so I can delete it.
got it.
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
I just managed to grab the kernel as well -- it's in the same place.
brilliant! ok that's a great result, am just pulling that over now.
l.
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Henrik Nordström henrik@henriknordstrom.net wrote:
ons 2015-03-11 klockan 10:57 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
have let the team at ingenic know about the 404 errors.
It is GIT repositories, not web pages. You are not supposed to browse there. The 404 is normal.
ohh, ok. thanks
l.
ons 2015-03-11 klockan 08:50 +0000 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
And Ingenic git server seems to be online for me.. kernel is at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/android/kernel/kernel-3.0.8/ and u-boot at http://git.ingenic.cn:8082/gerrit/linux/sources/bootloader/u-boot-1.1.6 (both git accessible only).
i'm seeing 404 not found on both of those, despite them being listed in their official android repo, so something odd going on there.
You need to git clone them. It is not web pages.
Regards henrik
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Paul Boddie -
Philip Hands