Hi, I saw the 'Earth-friendly EOMA68 Computing Devices’ crowd supply page a couple hours ago and have been trawling for more information for the last couple hours. I’ve got a question (apologies if I’ve missed something in front of my face).
What is the simplest way to hook up a card like this to the Internet?
This seems like an excellent approach to next-generation on-premise computing. But the videos, the mail archive and web pages I’ve viewed are all focussed on tablets and workstations. I’m basically a server-side computing guy, and I’d rather know about ethernet than KVM.
Many thanks, Nick
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Nick Hardiman nick@internetmachines.co.uk wrote:
Hi, I saw the 'Earth-friendly EOMA68 Computing Devices’ crowd supply page a couple hours ago and have been trawling for more information for the last couple hours. I’ve got a question (apologies if I’ve missed something in front of my face).
hiya, welcome nick.
What is the simplest way to hook up a card like this to the Internet?
$5 USB-Ethernet dongle. okay, $5 if you're happy to get onto amazon :) if you investigate what thinkpenguin is selling, those are the kinds of products you will know will "just work" - no firmware needed, they're "pure hardware" usb-eth dongles. i'm using a qca9600 and axis ones, they work out-of-the-box with the right linux kernel module compiled.
you'll also need one of the cable kits... you don't necessarily need the HDMI cable... you could pick up the original one on amazon that we ordered and tested... oo, oo, how exciting it's gone down in price by one whole cent :)
https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Cable-Power-Samsung-Player/dp/B00CXAC1ZW/
it was $1.64 last week haha. ok so that gives you a way to power it through the OTG port and also at the same time plug in a USB Ethernet dongle.
then you need a bog-standard off-the-shelf Micro-USB-OTG "Tablet / phone / anything" charger that's available pretty much anywhere, and you're set.
depending on how many of these you're looking to get, it might be easier to get a micro-desktop housing simply so that you are in a position to investigate things (pop out the "Server" SD Card, put in the "Desktop" SD card, check that the hardware's okay).
you'll almost certainly need a Micro-USB-OTG cable but those come with those OTG chargers usually. i won't assume you've already got one because i use a Nokia 3310 :)
This seems like an excellent approach to next-generation on-premise computing. But the videos, the mail archive and web pages I’ve viewed are all focussed on tablets and workstations.
we figured that this would be the majority of people, but i actually *want* people to consider doing co-located hosting using these as ultra-low-power "micro blade" servers.
I’m basically a server-side computing guy, and I’d rather know about ethernet than KVM.
cool.
well, if you're considering using them as space-saving 3 watt rack-mounted blade servers, the idea was discussed in-depth a number of years ago and keeps resurfacing on a regular basis.
the only thing is: to do remote boot management (if the OS or bootloader is corrupted) then unless you created a special PCB to plug these into it would be necessary to do physical recovery (unplug the card and put in a temporary replacement) but given that these are 40 gram cards it's not like you're replacing a 20kg 19in metal... Beast ... or anything :)
but, a special PCB for doing rack-mounted EOMA68 blade servers is exactly what i want to do at some point.
yeah, great. really pleased to hear that you're considering these for server-side.
l.
On 17 Jul 2016, at 02:37, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
Thanks for this - a very helpful answer.
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Nick Hardiman nick@internetmachines.co.uk wrote:
What is the simplest way to hook up a card like this to the Internet?
$5 USB-Ethernet dongle. okay, $5 if you're happy to get onto amazon :) if you investigate what thinkpenguin is selling, those are the kinds of products you will know will "just work" - no firmware needed, they're "pure hardware" usb-eth dongles. i'm using a qca9600 and axis ones, they work out-of-the-box with the right linux kernel module compiled.
you'll also need one of the cable kits... you don't necessarily need the HDMI cable... you could pick up the original one on amazon that we ordered and tested…
...
depending on how many of these you're looking to get, it might be easier to get a micro-desktop housing simply so that you are in a position to investigate things (pop out the "Server" SD Card, put in the "Desktop" SD card, check that the hardware's okay).
So if I got this right, I can set up a card with network access in three ways - a minimal standalone setup, a full desktop setup, or a PCB for many cards. First two are linked to the current crowdsourcing campaign, third one is a future enhancement.
Here’s what I understand about the first two. This look right? Please excuse my rough ASCII connections diagrams
a minimal standalone setup
power socket | power plug, $6 delivering at least 3 watts, so thats practically any USB charger https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Wall-Charger-Outlet-Output/dp/B005CG2ATQ... | USB OTG cable, $1.63 (!) https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Cable-Power-Samsung-Player/dp/B00CXAC1ZW/ or USB + HDMI Cable Set, $15 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | USB to Ethernet adapter | This one seems to contain an ASIX chip (AX88178) | $25 | http://plugable.com/products/usb2-e1000 | | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | Libre Tea Computer Card, $65
a full desktop setup, for seeing boot loader and kernel messages
Libre Tea Computer Card $65 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | Micro Desktop Housing $55 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | | | Keyboard, Video, Mouse, say $100 | power plug (a USB charger?)
well, if you're considering using them as space-saving 3 watt rack-mounted blade servers, the idea was discussed in-depth a number of years ago and keeps resurfacing on a regular basis. ... but, a special PCB for doing rack-mounted EOMA68 blade servers is exactly what i want to do at some point.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Nick Hardiman nick@internetmachines.co.uk wrote:
So if I got this right, I can set up a card with network access in three ways - a minimal standalone setup, a full desktop setup, or a PCB for many cards. First two are linked to the current crowdsourcing campaign, third one is a future enhancement.
correct.
Here’s what I understand about the first two. This look right? Please excuse my rough ASCII connections diagrams
we like ascii connections. thank you for not doing them as HTML.
a minimal standalone setup
power socket | power plug, $6 delivering at least 3 watts, so thats practically any USB charger https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Wall-Charger-Outlet-Output/dp/B005CG2ATQ... | USB OTG cable, $1.63 (!) https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Cable-Power-Samsung-Player/dp/B00CXAC1ZW/ or USB + HDMI Cable Set, $15 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | USB to Ethernet adapter | This one seems to contain an ASIX chip (AX88178) | $25 | http://plugable.com/products/usb2-e1000
plugable... mmmm... you're better off buying from thinkpenguin.
| | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | Libre Tea Computer Card, $65
that's basically it. you won't be able to see any of the boot logs, early kernel messages or OS boot logs with this setup.
if you were to get the cable set *and* then plug in the HDMI cable *and* the bootloader and kernel were configured to display onto HDMI, *then* you would be able to use just the above, because you could plug in a keyboard instead of the USB-ETH adapter.
a full desktop setup, for seeing boot loader and kernel messages
boot loader and kernel messages go to where the boot loader and kernel are configured to send them. *early* messages can *only* go to the serial port. this isn't a PC, it's an embedded computer. if you're not familiar with this you should read up on it, on the linux-sunxi wiki, and ask more questions when you need to.
basically the boot proces goes:
* BROM (boot rom) http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM * NAND or SD/MMC 16k "very early bootloader". this is so small it can only do serial debug output
depending on the very early bootloader, some people use allwinner boot0/boot1, other people use u-boot "SPL" early bootloader, you have different choices.
* after u-boot-spl you can go direct to u-boot and from there LCD or HDMI or UART is initialised, you can get early u-boot messages on LCD or UART * boot0/boot1 is a bit weird, it can do LCD / HDMI initialisation but it's for tablets, you don't get log messages. you can put in your own u-boot, that's where you could get LCD/HDMI started
from there you get to kernel, that's when you have "console=XXXX" from u-boot and associated scripts (uEnv.txt), that says where the kernel console output goes.
i will have this all set up correctly so that you won't need to do it or know all of it in advance, and there will be people (at least me) who can guide you through modifying it for particular setups. there's also the linux-sunxi community.
Libre Tea Computer Card $65 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | Micro Desktop Housing $55 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | | | Keyboard, Video, Mouse, say $100 | power plug (a USB charger?)
no, a 7-21v PSU (i'll likely supply a 12v one) with a standard 5.5mm pin-positive jack. the PSU is part of the micro-desktop kit.
l.
Thanks for your help. I ordered * Libre Tea Computer Card * Micro Desktop Housing for Computer Card
I’ve never even seen this board, so why did I order?
I’ve already got a few SBCs here that aren’t quite right. This new computer card is a compact board, with a great specification at a reasonable price. And I’m looking forward to feeling the benefit of these improvements over other SBCs. * FSF certification. That means a lot of people a lot smarter than me have checked the system. I can expect it to just work. * the card housing. I can put this in my pocket, without ripping bits off the motherboard. * That PCMCIA socket. That’s so easy to use - all you got to do is push it in and pull it out.
And of course, it can run my favorite Linux distros.
Thanks for putting together such a great product.
On 17 Jul 2016, at 15:25, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Nick Hardiman nick@internetmachines.co.uk wrote:
So if I got this right, I can set up a card with network access in three ways - a minimal standalone setup, a full desktop setup, or a PCB for many cards. First two are linked to the current crowdsourcing campaign, third one is a future enhancement.
correct.
Here’s what I understand about the first two. This look right? Please excuse my rough ASCII connections diagrams
we like ascii connections. thank you for not doing them as HTML.
a minimal standalone setup
power socket | power plug, $6 delivering at least 3 watts, so thats practically any USB charger https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Wall-Charger-Outlet-Output/dp/B005CG2ATQ... | USB OTG cable, $1.63 (!) https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Cable-Power-Samsung-Player/dp/B00CXAC1ZW/ or USB + HDMI Cable Set, $15 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | USB to Ethernet adapter | This one seems to contain an ASIX chip (AX88178) | $25 | http://plugable.com/products/usb2-e1000
plugable... mmmm... you're better off buying from thinkpenguin.
| | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | Libre Tea Computer Card, $65
that's basically it. you won't be able to see any of the boot logs, early kernel messages or OS boot logs with this setup.
if you were to get the cable set *and* then plug in the HDMI cable *and* the bootloader and kernel were configured to display onto HDMI, *then* you would be able to use just the above, because you could plug in a keyboard instead of the USB-ETH adapter.
a full desktop setup, for seeing boot loader and kernel messages
boot loader and kernel messages go to where the boot loader and kernel are configured to send them. *early* messages can *only* go to the serial port. this isn't a PC, it's an embedded computer. if you're not familiar with this you should read up on it, on the linux-sunxi wiki, and ask more questions when you need to.
basically the boot proces goes:
- BROM (boot rom) http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM
- NAND or SD/MMC 16k "very early bootloader". this is so small it
can only do serial debug output
depending on the very early bootloader, some people use allwinner boot0/boot1, other people use u-boot "SPL" early bootloader, you have different choices.
- after u-boot-spl you can go direct to u-boot and from there LCD or
HDMI or UART is initialised, you can get early u-boot messages on LCD or UART
- boot0/boot1 is a bit weird, it can do LCD / HDMI initialisation but
it's for tablets, you don't get log messages. you can put in your own u-boot, that's where you could get LCD/HDMI started
from there you get to kernel, that's when you have "console=XXXX" from u-boot and associated scripts (uEnv.txt), that says where the kernel console output goes.
i will have this all set up correctly so that you won't need to do it or know all of it in advance, and there will be people (at least me) who can guide you through modifying it for particular setups. there's also the linux-sunxi community.
Libre Tea Computer Card $65 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | Micro Desktop Housing $55 https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop | | | | | Network cable, to the network, say $10 | | | Keyboard, Video, Mouse, say $100 | power plug (a USB charger?)
no, a 7-21v PSU (i'll likely supply a 12v one) with a standard 5.5mm pin-positive jack. the PSU is part of the micro-desktop kit.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Nick Hardiman nick@internetmachines.co.uk wrote:
Thanks for your help. I ordered
- Libre Tea Computer Card
- Micro Desktop Housing for Computer Card
I’ve never even seen this board, so why did I order?
I’ve already got a few SBCs here that aren’t quite right. This new computer card is a compact board, with a great specification at a reasonable price. And I’m looking forward to feeling the benefit of these improvements over other SBCs.
- FSF certification. That means a lot of people a lot smarter than me have checked the system. I can expect it to just work.
- the card housing. I can put this in my pocket, without ripping bits off the motherboard.
- That PCMCIA socket. That’s so easy to use - all you got to do is push it in and pull it out.
And of course, it can run my favorite Linux distros.
Thanks for putting together such a great product.
thanks nick, that's a great endorsement. keep in touch if you need help with any unusual setups (headless servers).
l.
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
-
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Nick Hardiman