Hello everyone,
The last news I read on this mailing list was saying that the next step for EOMA68 Computing Devices project was to boot an image.
Since I'm not at this level of technique (very high for me), how could I help?
Sometimes, relaunching the discussion is enough to get news and take a step ;-)
Best, Franck
Franck it would appear we two are the only ones monitoring this anymore. The news appeared encouraging at last communication but silence since. So what are we to make of this? Thanks Peter Carlson
On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 2:43 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
Hello everyone,
The last news I read on this mailing list was saying that the next step for EOMA68 Computing Devices project was to boot an image.
Since I'm not at this level of technique (very high for me), how could I help?
Sometimes, relaunching the discussion is enough to get news and take a step ;-)
Best, Franck
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wednesday, November 8, 2023, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Franck it would appear we two are the only ones monitoring this anymore.
no, i am still here but i am *not* going to spend my time or energy, it is down to *you* all.
The news appeared encouraging at last communication but silence since. So what are we to make of this?
simply that nobody is taking responsibility.
when i have the time and energy i will get back to it.
if anyone wants to actually get paid to work on this, *you* can write and submit up to a EUR 50,000 NLnet Grant request. yes they are specifically looking for hardware projects.
l.
Well my curt Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton the only two people to have contributed any communication in months are both decidedly neither software nor hardware proficient. We appear to be the enthusiast "peanut gallery" Those who could help are not doing so for their own reasons. Where do we go from here? Is it time to close the book on this one? Thanks Peter Carlson
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 9:57 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2023, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Franck it would appear we two are the only ones monitoring this anymore.
no, i am still here but i am *not* going to spend my time or energy, it is down to *you* all.
The news appeared encouraging at last communication but silence since. So what are we to make of this?
simply that nobody is taking responsibility.
when i have the time and energy i will get back to it.
if anyone wants to actually get paid to work on this, *you* can write and submit up to a EUR 50,000 NLnet Grant request. yes they are specifically looking for hardware projects.
l.
--
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wednesday, November 8, 2023, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Well my curt Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
welcome to Asperger's... and to reminding and repeating the exact same thing for *four years* and not having anyone really take any ******g notice except for a very few people. (grateful: parabolath, and others)
the only two people to have contributed any communication in months are both decidedly neither
software
nor hardware proficient. We appear to be the enthusiast "peanut gallery" Those who could help are not doing so for their own reasons. Where do we go from here? Is it time
to
close the book on this one?
a specification is never "closed".
100 of the Cards are now at Crowdsupply.
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
if not one single person helps develop a test image *nobody* gets s***.
very very simple and i am getting quite fed up telling people this.
l.
Thank you for the explanation and update. I am familiar with Asperger's, but also think it is important to remind "bearers of that burden" how they come across if for no other reason than for them to understand why they might get the kind of response they sometimes get.
I was unaware that there are, in fact, cards at Crowd Supply. I do monitor my account at Crowd Supply and this has not been communicated to me. If one needs to request a card from Crowd Supply for testing purposes then perhaps this could be communicated to the people who could help. I am not in a position to help in any significant way. Although I could try and get an image onto a card I am not technically proficient enough to really accomplish much. The other hindrance to that end is I am in Africa on a volunteer mandate so I don't have access to my most basic electronics workbench.
My hope is that this communication may enlighten someone of the technical "illuminati" that cards are available for testing. Thanks Peter Carlson
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 10:12 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 8, 2023, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Well my curt Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
welcome to Asperger's... and to reminding and repeating the exact same thing for *four years* and not having anyone really take any ******g notice except for a very few people. (grateful: parabolath, and others)
the only two people to have contributed any communication in months are both decidedly neither
software
nor hardware proficient. We appear to be the enthusiast "peanut gallery" Those who could help are not doing so for their own reasons. Where do we go from here? Is it time
to
close the book on this one?
a specification is never "closed".
100 of the Cards are now at Crowdsupply.
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
if not one single person helps develop a test image *nobody* gets s***.
very very simple and i am getting quite fed up telling people this.
l.
--
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Le 08/11/2023 à 11:12, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
Hi, thanks for the news.
For those who are tech able AND have time+energy to make and test an boot image, usefull infos can be found here :
https://rhombus-tech.net/recentchanges/
and here :
https://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2023-January/016542.html
Here is an non tech able idea : may be someone here know someone or a community where someone could be happy to work on this test image challenge ?
So, exept you think it is a bad idea, I will talk about this challenge in the communities I am talking with.
Franck
Thanks Franck for your commitment to this. Thanks Peter Carlson
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 10:50 AM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
Le 08/11/2023 à 11:12, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
Hi, thanks for the news.
For those who are tech able AND have time+energy to make and test an boot image, usefull infos can be found here :
https://rhombus-tech.net/recentchanges/
and here :
https://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2023-January/016542.html
Here is an non tech able idea : may be someone here know someone or a community where someone could be happy to work on this test image challenge ?
So, exept you think it is a bad idea, I will talk about this challenge in the communities I am talking with.
Franck
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On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:12 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
Have we distilled the requirements for a test image down into a document anywhere? Namely, lists of what is required and what would be good or nice to have under explicit headings?
If not I'll be happy to start a wiki page. Looks like we need a build of uboot and the kernel + test software to exercise the interfaces we want to test. Possibly with automated gathering and interpreting of results to speed the logging and repair of problems.
Sincerely, Richard
On Thursday, November 9, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:12 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
Have we distilled the requirements for a test image down into a document anywhere?
booting to linux kernel on UART console is enough. VGA 800x600 assuming a micro-desktop board is icing on the cake.
Namely, lists of what is required and what would be good or nice to have under explicit headings?
If not I'll be happy to start a wiki page. Looks like we need a build of uboot and the kernel + test software to exercise the interfaces we want to test. Possibly with automated gathering and interpreting of results to speed the logging and repair of problems.
this would be fantastic.
note that even having u-boot show console output is significant as it does basic initialisation of PLL and DDR3.
if you get that far you know the following are good:
* power * uart * PLL * CPU * DDR3 * Micro-SD
which is a heck of a lot.
l.
Am Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 02:55:33AM +0000 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
On Thursday, November 9, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 3:12 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
if someone, even one person, gets them a test image, 100 people can get their cards.
Have we distilled the requirements for a test image down into a document anywhere?
booting to linux kernel on UART console is enough. VGA 800x600 assuming a micro-desktop board is icing on the cake.
As we have discussed in January (2023) on this list I have a working boot-image fullfilling the minimal requierements (U-Boot, Linux Kernel, Debian root image on UART console) somewhere on my hard drives. Andreas Grapentin and I have broken hardware. I don't know if Andreas made any progress at repairing his hardware.
So my question is: "Can anyone with working hardware test and varify my boot-image before we send it to Crowdsupply?" This is the crucial step right now. We can ice the cake later once 100 cards get released into the world.
Richard, am I correct that you have a working computer card and a microdesktop in you possession. Are you willing to set it all up and test my boot-image?
Pablo
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:30 PM Pablo Rath pablo@parobalth.org wrote:
As we have discussed in January (2023) on this list I have a working boot-image fullfilling the minimal requierements (U-Boot, Linux Kernel, Debian root image on UART console) somewhere on my hard drives. Andreas Grapentin and I have broken hardware. I don't know if Andreas made any progress at repairing his hardware.
Sorry about your busted hardware.
So my question is: "Can anyone with working hardware test and varify my boot-image before we send it to Crowdsupply?" This is the crucial step right now. We can ice the cake later once 100 cards get released into the world.
Richard, am I correct that you have a working computer card and a microdesktop in you possession. Are you willing to set it all up and test my boot-image?
I have an untested computer card (v1.7.4) and microdesktop (v1.?, I've got to lay eyes on it to verify the version). I am interested in setting it up and would be happy to test your boot-image.
(I'm also interested in being able to generate a boot image from source. Do you have notes on how you built it?)
I'm a few days away from being able to set things up, I believe. Then I can try things out, verify that my computer card works and try out your boot image. After that we can send the boot image to CrowdSupply.
When I can lay my hands on an oscilloscope, I intend to carefully/gingerly test my microdesktop board. I get the impression from what others have written, there's a pathology with either the pcb layout or the assembly around one of the regulator chips. So I'd like to observe it misbehaving without burning anything up.
Richard
Just wanted to add that I am still excited about this project. I don’t understand how anyone can contribute without access to the hardware. Is there some extra sitting around that I could get ahold of (at my expense) to test and help out?
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 14:25 Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:30 PM Pablo Rath pablo@parobalth.org wrote:
As we have discussed in January (2023) on this list I have a working boot-image fullfilling the minimal requierements (U-Boot, Linux Kernel, Debian root image on UART console) somewhere on my hard drives. Andreas Grapentin and I have broken hardware. I don't know if Andreas made any progress at repairing his hardware.
Sorry about your busted hardware.
So my question is: "Can anyone with working hardware test and varify my boot-image before we send it to Crowdsupply?" This is the crucial step right now. We can ice the cake later once 100 cards get released into the world.
Richard, am I correct that you have a working computer card and a microdesktop in you possession. Are you willing to set it all up and test my boot-image?
I have an untested computer card (v1.7.4) and microdesktop (v1.?, I've got to lay eyes on it to verify the version). I am interested in setting it up and would be happy to test your boot-image.
(I'm also interested in being able to generate a boot image from source. Do you have notes on how you built it?)
I'm a few days away from being able to set things up, I believe. Then I can try things out, verify that my computer card works and try out your boot image. After that we can send the boot image to CrowdSupply.
When I can lay my hands on an oscilloscope, I intend to carefully/gingerly test my microdesktop board. I get the impression from what others have written, there's a pathology with either the pcb layout or the assembly around one of the regulator chips. So I'd like to observe it misbehaving without burning anything up.
Richard
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On Tuesday, November 14, 2023, Mike Henry mikejackofalltrades@gmail.com wrote:
Just wanted to add that I am still excited about this project. I don’t understand how anyone can contribute without access to the hardware.
qemu.
Is there some extra sitting around that I could get ahold of (at my expense) to test and help out?
yes... i have a couple. i have to dig them out later as i am currenly homeless and living in a van.
l.
Am Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 02:24:59PM -0700 schrieb Richard Wilbur: [...]
So my question is: "Can anyone with working hardware test and varify my boot-image before we send it to Crowdsupply?" This is the crucial step right now. We can ice the cake later once 100 cards get released into the world.
Richard, am I correct that you have a working computer card and a microdesktop in you possession. Are you willing to set it all up and test my boot-image?
I have an untested computer card (v1.7.4) and microdesktop (v1.?, I've got to lay eyes on it to verify the version). I am interested in setting it up and would be happy to test your boot-image.
- The first step is to solder 3 pins (2.54 mm pitch) to the microdesktop to later attach GND, TX, RX. The spacing in the board is designed precisely for that. *Never* connect the VCC_IO line.
https://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/EOMA68-A20_2-7-4_preproduction/
see section "Solder UART connection to 1.7 Micro Desktop" and especially the link to a .jpg image (Luke soldered the cables directly to the board, but it is nicer with pins). You should see GND (black cable), TX (blue cable) and RX (green cable)on the USB-UART board.
If necessary I could add an image of my microdesktop with pins.
- Second step: Do you already have the required hardware / cable for the UART connection? I use an USB to TTL Serial Cable Adapter by ThinkPenguin.
- Next steps are going to be "Power Supply" (best practice is to use a Laptop, and a USB cable connected to a USB-port on the microdesktop) and "insert computer card into microdesktop" (one must be careful to get the alignment perfectly right). Everything I know has been discussed on this list but I'm going to add summaries and links to the mailing-list-archive to the Wiki.
(I'm also interested in being able to generate a boot image from source. Do you have notes on how you built it?)
Great. Yes, my notes are here: https://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/EOMA68-A20_2-7-4_preproduction/#softw... Feel free to ask me any specific questions.
I'm a few days away from being able to set things up, I believe. Then I can try things out, verify that my computer card works and try out your boot image. After that we can send the boot image to CrowdSupply.
Great. Let us work on it step by step.
Pablo
folks if you would like to get paid for sorting this out NLnet is very keen to have people put in grant applications of EUR 50,000. a BRIEF summary of an IDEA is all that is needed, spending more than 40 minutes on writing the application is more than needed.
funding the next revision EOMA68 Card would be fantastic, i suggest one with an FPGA, using the popular ECP5, based on the ulx3s.
also fixing mcrodesktop 1.7
richard?
deadline for next application dec 1st.
l.
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 1:24 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
folks if you would like to get paid for sorting this out NLnet is very keen to have people put in grant applications of EUR 50,000. a BRIEF summary of an IDEA is all that is needed, spending more than 40 minutes on writing the application is more than needed.
For developing the tests for the current cards?
funding the next revision EOMA68 Card would be fantastic, i suggest one with an FPGA, using the popular ECP5, based on the ulx3s.
also fixing mcrodesktop 1.7
richard?
I am definitely interested in this effort. Having some grant money to help with design, prototyping, and testing would be especially useful.
deadline for next application dec 1st.
I would need some hand holding with the application process. By the way, are the mentioned NLnet funds available to U.S. citizens like me? Can I apply for the grant?
Sincerely, Richard
On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 1:24 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
folks if you would like to get paid for sorting this out NLnet is very keen to have people put in grant applications of EUR 50,000. a BRIEF summary of an IDEA is all that is needed, spending more than 40 minutes on writing the application is more than needed.
For developing the tests for the current cards?
that as well
I would need some hand holding with the application process.
i have *10* applications online now, you can see how obvious they are. the tasks (milestones) come later. first thing is "notes on why you want to do this", and seriously if you take longer than 30 minutes something is wrong.
By the way, are the mentioned NLnet funds available to U.S. citizens like me?
yyup!
Can I apply for the grant?
yyup!
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 12:53 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
I would need some hand holding with the application process.
i have *10* applications online now, you can see how obvious they are. the tasks (milestones) come later. first thing is "notes on why you want to do this", and seriously if you take longer than 30 minutes something is wrong.
Where are those 10 applications? I am interested in taking a look at them.
On Wednesday, November 29, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 12:53 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
I would need some hand holding with the application process.
i have *10* applications online now, you can see how obvious they are. the tasks (milestones) come later. first thing is "notes on why you want to do this", and seriously if you take longer than 30 minutes something is wrong.
Where are those 10 applications? I am interested in taking a look at
them.
https://libre-soc.org/nlnet_proposals/
feel free to use them as templates, i suggest putting in under https://nlnet.nl/propose quickly and use NGI "Core" https://nlnet.nl/core/
remember if you are typing longer than 40 minutes to put in the application something is wrong. they want *brief* summaries covering "why" and "what roughly planned".
*later* (4-5 weeks time) they want details, at stage 2 of the review process. i can walk you through it, keep in touch ok? stage 2 you have *48 hours* to respond so have to be ready with top-level milestones *in advance*... but not now.
also because i am indirectly involved you might be able to request between EUR 50-100k but don't count on it, i am hitting EU-mandated limits (after 5 years. took a while)
l.
On Wednesday, November 29, 2023, Richard Wilbur richard.wilbur@gmail.com wrote:
Where are those 10 applications?
progress and milestones: https://bugs.libre-soc.org/show_bug.cgi?id=938
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
-
Franck Sinimalé -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Mike Henry -
Pablo Rath -
Peter Carlson -
Richard Wilbur