Hi,
Luke/Aaron, you need to get some shoes on and go make a mini HDMI connector that is a little bit smaller (so as to prevent it being used as a video connector) and use it as ethernet connector.
Notice all the tablets out there don't have physical ethernet?
For lack of a decent substitute ethernet connector that is thin enough to go on a tablet.
It could be designed so that future EOMAs could have it and so too should the Plasma Active tablets. And thin stacks of future server boards.
You guys need to use your industrial contacts and muscle and go pull some strings to make it happen. The alternative is I go make it in mini-HDMI size and just make cable adapter (which will lead to confusion). I'm sure my adventure will end in tears and a sorry mess but it be better than nothing.
HDMI has at least 4 tx/rx pairs and a lot more - just use the tx/rx pairs only and its good enough to get gigabit ethernet. The ethernet magnetics chip is very small these days costing under $1, so the overall solution could fit inside an EOMA.
There is some standard out there milling around to support ethernet through HDMI, but I don't fancy that as a better solution than a low profile dedicated ethernet connector long overdue for the tablet market to replace the bulky RJ connector.
2013/11/15 joem joem@martindale-electric.co.uk
Hi,
Luke/Aaron, you need to get some shoes on and go make a mini HDMI connector that is a little bit smaller (so as to prevent it being used as a video connector) and use it as ethernet connector.
Notice all the tablets out there don't have physical ethernet?
A lot of those ultra-thin laptop don't have Ethernet ports as well. Laptop manufactures are simply ditching Ethernet in favour of Wifi and the added sales on USB ethernet Dongles.
For lack of a decent substitute ethernet connector that is thin enough to go on a tablet.
In the old days there were Ethernet PCMCIA Ethernet cards, type 1, with a slide out frame for ethernet. Like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XJACK_network_card_extended.jpg
But haven't seen that for ages. Probably because the slide frame is very fragile.
It could be designed so that future EOMAs could have it and so too should the Plasma Active tablets. And thin stacks of future server boards.
You guys need to use your industrial contacts and muscle and go pull some strings to make it happen. The alternative is I go make it in mini-HDMI size and just make cable adapter (which will lead to confusion). I'm sure my adventure will end in tears and a sorry mess but it be better than nothing.
Luke et.al. have a lot of brains and will power. Guys like Intel/Apple have the needed muscle/influnce/bulk-sales. To make that happen. But alas, they don't seem interested. Nor the IEEE taskforce resposible for the Ethernet standard.
Come to think of it, the RJ-45 size was already an issue in the PCMCIA days, and nothing changed.
HDMI has at least 4 tx/rx pairs and a lot more - just use the tx/rx pairs only and its good enough to get gigabit ethernet. The ethernet magnetics chip is very small these days costing under $1, so the overall solution could fit inside an EOMA.
There is some standard out there milling around to support ethernet through HDMI, but I don't fancy that as a better solution than a low profile dedicated ethernet connector long overdue for the tablet market to replace the bulky RJ connector.
The HDMI 1.4 standard includes a few pins for Ethernet, max 100Mbps. One could make a breakout cable. Splitting the Ethernet and HDMI outside the tablet and no need to "invent" an extra connector nor adding it to the eoma-68 carries or card-fronts
Too bad those are not on the market yet.
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Back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, before USB, 3Com used to make type I PCMCIA (and, later, Cardbus) ethernet cards which used a short 6" or so dongle to bring the proprietary-but-nice latching outward-facing card-edge connector out to a standard modular jack. Variant dongle cables were available for the other 10-base-T physical connector types, but these were really rare. The 3Com cards were available rebadged as Dell, IBM, etc. I don't know if these dongles are still in active production somewhere in China, but they are still semi-available through ebay and such. "3Com dongle pcmcia" are the key search terms.
If we're going to reinvent the wheel, it might be good to reuse the old latching connector and dongle design, if it isn't patent-encumbered.
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 06:56 -0600, Eric Stuyvesant wrote:
Back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, before USB, 3Com used to make type I PCMCIA (and, later, Cardbus) ethernet cards which used a short 6" or so dongle to bring the proprietary-but-nice latching outward-facing card-edge connector out to a standard modular jack. Variant dongle cables were available for the other 10-base-T physical connector types, but these were really rare. The 3Com cards were available rebadged as Dell, IBM, etc. I don't know if these dongles are still in active production somewhere in China, but they are still semi-available through ebay and such. "3Com dongle pcmcia" are the key search terms.
If we're going to reinvent the wheel, it might be good to reuse the old latching connector and dongle design, if it isn't patent-encumbered.
That old latching connector could still leave it with a height problem for slick designs.
The cheapest mini-HDMI connector I found was advertised as $0.10 - $0.20 for MOQ of 3000. The cheapest magnetics I found was about $1.
Mixing HDMI and ethernet signals could be fatal to HDMI though :( Any leaking mains or lightening strike entering the cable also fatal to HDMI, while well built ethernet could survive.
On 11/19/13, joem joem@martindale-electric.co.uk wrote:
That old latching connector could still leave it with a height problem for slick designs.
I believe that the dongle (on the card edge latching end) was no taller than the PCMCIA type-I card that it connected to, so I don't think there would be a height problem, assuming you mean height in the thickness-of-PCMCIA-type-I-card sense.
Not that I'm seriously promoting this as THE RIGHT ANSWER vis-a-vis HDMI (although my personal experience with HDMI connectors is that they are fragile relative to the weight and stiffness--and thereby force-on-the-connector--of the HDMI cable itself). Just throwing the information out there...
Mechanically, modern USB and HDMI type connectors really leave something to be desired, IMHO.
The HDMI 1.4 standard includes a few pins for Ethernet, max 100Mbps. One could make a breakout cable. Splitting the Ethernet and HDMI outside the tablet and no need to "invent" an extra connector nor adding it to the eoma-68 carries or card-fronts
Too bad those are not on the market yet.
Too bad.
Where I see a problem is trying to make HDMI and ethernet work at the same time. If someone connect an ethernet with HDMI cable to HDMI, then you would expect the HDMI to survive a miswire and/or a fault as a result of going through some ducting. So invariably you are going to end up with an overspec'd HDMI that handles ethernet which is likely an all round expensive standard to follow.
So I'm thinking kick out the HDMI from the mini-HDMI connector and just use 4 pairs for ethernet. May be some manufacturer could be persuaded to put in a key that prevents normal mini-HDMI connectors connecting to it.
I was thinking put some mini screw holes on each side like RS232 connectors to hold the connectors in place once connected and screwed down. The connector geometry could then be altered to prevent standard HDMI connecting to it because the connector is different to HDMI anyway and requires modified tooling. That would be good for server rooms, but cheap consumer items would probably not use screw down connectors.
2013/11/19 joem joem@martindale-electric.co.uk
The HDMI 1.4 standard includes a few pins for Ethernet, max 100Mbps. One could make a breakout cable. Splitting the Ethernet and HDMI outside the tablet and no need to "invent" an extra connector nor adding it to the eoma-68 carries or card-fronts
Too bad those are not on the market yet.
Too bad.
Where I see a problem is trying to make HDMI and ethernet work at the same time. If someone connect an ethernet with HDMI cable to HDMI, then you would expect the HDMI to survive a miswire and/or a fault as a result of going through some ducting. So invariably you are going to end up with an overspec'd HDMI that handles ethernet which is likely an all round expensive standard to follow.
I Think were on different tracks. The HDMI 1.4 standard consist of a HDMI connector with 19 pins. 2 of those are reserved voor Etherne. It was invented to have a TV provide Ethernet to its connected perhipials. So one RJ45 in the TV and the PVR, STB, etc recieve Ethernet from the TV.
So adding Ethernet to the HDMI is within specification. No alteration to the connector or cables required.
My thought was to create an Y-cable. A Male HMDI to Ethernet RJ45 female and HDMI female. The only strange thing is that only a single pair is used in HDMI and 10 and 100BaseTX uses 2 pairs (4 wires)?
And if you only connect a HDMI cable noting happens. And if your TV/Monitor provides Ethernet over HDMI. you have only one cable needed and no switch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
Mis wiring will botch up anything. Not doing it because someone may miswire something is like forbidding riding bikes. You might hurt yourself. ;-)
So I'm thinking kick out the HDMI from the mini-HDMI connector and just use 4 pairs for ethernet. May be some manufacturer could be persuaded to put in a key that prevents normal mini-HDMI connectors connecting to it.
I was thinking put some mini screw holes on each side like RS232 connectors to hold the connectors in place once connected and screwed down. The connector geometry could then be altered to prevent standard HDMI connecting to it because the connector is different to HDMI anyway and requires modified tooling. That would be good for server rooms, but cheap consumer items would probably not use screw down connectors.
There is an automotive HDMI connector available. And adapters are available. Probably cheaper and easier accepted than an off-spec hdmi
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I Think were on different tracks. The HDMI 1.4 standard consist of a HDMI connector with 19 pins. 2 of those are reserved voor Etherne. It was invented to have a TV provide Ethernet to its connected perhipials. So one RJ45 in the TV and the PVR, STB, etc recieve Ethernet from the TV.
We might be on different tracks - the ethernet to HDMI would be good for ethernet over short distances such as from device to TV or a router in the same room. It would be quite bad for ethernet across factory floor or crossing several rooms through a duct. The spacing between the fingers on the connector is not up to it as far as I can tell from looking at it. Hence arguing for a separate connector.
But then again, you might be more correct to use the standard. It should be possible to have two connectors - one that just does ethernet and one that does HDMI. So long as the HDMI devices are compliant, nothing bad should happen if accidentally connecting to wrong HDMI connector :)
Hey Aaron / Luke, did you catch all that? Have two HDMI connectors - one with ethernet and one with HDMI signals!
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