Hello,
I wanted to ask here, after trying to search ML archives & rhombus site.
The EOMA68 standard has no provision for ethernet, but AFAIU the other end of the CPU card can be more or less free to use.
So would it be possible to link a future SoC w/ ethernet to the HDMI HEC pins and get at least a 100Mbps ethernet, without needing any USB dongle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Communication_channel_protocols
Regards
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to ask here, after trying to search ML archives & rhombus site.
The EOMA68 standard has no provision for ethernet, but AFAIU the other end of the CPU card can be more or less free to use.
yyep
So would it be possible to link a future SoC w/ ethernet to the HDMI HEC pins and get at least a 100Mbps ethernet, without needing any USB dongle.
yep! i wonder if there's ethernet already on the A20.
l.
The EOMA68 standard has no provision for ethernet, but AFAIU the other end of the CPU card can be more or less free to use.
yyep
That may be a good way to tackle SoC-specific functionalities, without wasting them... An easy way to be even-more-earth-friendly... Think about going the extra mile, or squeezing every last bit out of it...
So would it be possible to link a future SoC w/ ethernet to the HDMI HEC pins and get at least a 100Mbps ethernet, without needing any USB dongle.
yep! i wonder if there's ethernet already on the A20.
Ah that would be extra-extra nice, but no cigar ;-)
The H3 has one (even with an integrated 100Mbps PHY), that would be nice...
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
The EOMA68 standard has no provision for ethernet, but AFAIU the other end of the CPU card can be more or less free to use.
yyep
That may be a good way to tackle SoC-specific functionalities, without wasting them... An easy way to be even-more-earth-friendly... Think about going the extra mile, or squeezing every last bit out of it...
Using the extra SoC specific functionalities might not necessarily be more earth friendly. Since your next computer card might not offer the same user facing interfaces that your old one did. The great thing about EOMA68 is that none of the functionality on the pinout end is optional. This means that all future computer cards will be compatible with all your existing enclosures, and vice versa, if you want to upgrade your enclosure you don't have to worry about it being incompatible with your existing computer card.
This really cuts down on waste, since there's no risk of buying incompatible hardware, and you only have to upgrade the piece that is broken or outdated.
If you rely on the user facing end for ethernet or HDMI or whatever, you can lock yourself into a situation where you can't upgrade your card or can't re-use your peripherals.
So would it be possible to link a future SoC w/ ethernet to the HDMI HEC pins and get at least a 100Mbps ethernet, without needing any USB dongle.
yep! i wonder if there's ethernet already on the A20.
Ah that would be extra-extra nice, but no cigar ;-)
The H3 has one (even with an integrated 100Mbps PHY), that would be nice...
-- Vincent Legoll
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--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Adam Van Ymeren adam.vany@gmail.com wrote:
Using the extra SoC specific functionalities might not necessarily be more earth friendly. Since your next computer card might not offer the same user facing interfaces that your old one did. The great
d'yknow... this never occurred to me before. i always sort-of thought it would just be cool (and sensible) to have card-specific extensions / purposes (such as built-in 3G with an antenna sticking out the card end) - it just never occurred to me (it definitely should have) that that would result in potential "lock-in".
i always thought, y'know, things like HDMI would be ubiquitous / common enough that you would always be able to find an upgraded computer card with USB-OTG and HDMI: the impact of specialisation at the *user-facing* end never hit my tiny brain :) huh. l.
it just never occurred to me (it definitely should have) that that would result in potential "lock-in".
I don't buy into this, there's no lock-in to me. The user will fill his needs whatever the mean, either by using something provided (almost) freely by the SoC, or by buying additional HW.
So what can be argued is: will the few things added to every boards to provide the SoC specific functionalities be compensated by the things not needed for those who will get it anyways. That's a trade-of, additional price will also be a factor.
But providing additional interface on the far end of the card is no philosophical problem to me. Especially for ubiquitous things like ethernet, I can't think of this being a locking-in feature. After all these boards are designed to have a long lifespan, so the need to upgrade is not as important.
And if (and only if) a future upgrade does not provide it, then you always be able to switch to an USB one, if (and only if) you still need it...
i always thought, y'know, things like HDMI would be ubiquitous / common enough that you would always be able to find an upgraded computer card with USB-OTG and HDMI: the impact of specialisation at the *user-facing* end never hit my tiny brain :) huh.
In my computer life I've seen 2 wired net techs (BNC & eth), whereas I've used 5 for display (VGA, BNC, DVI, HDMI, DP). I'm OK with USB because of its backward compatibility (I'm still not sure it will stay that way) So I'm not sure trying too hard to guess the future is mandated here, just being pragmatic. Which I can (and have) be(en) convinced EOMA68 is...
But I'm convinced that providing as much of the SoC functionalities as pragmatically possible is better. Either by enabling more widespread adoption, or by avoiding the need for USB-based addons.
2016-09-07 21:38 GMT+02:00 Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com:
it just never occurred to me (it definitely should have) that that would result in potential "lock-in".
I don't buy into this, there's no lock-in to me. The user will fill his needs whatever the mean, either by using something provided (almost) freely by the SoC, or by buying additional HW.
I tend to agree. The EOMA Cards slides in only one way so it's very awkward to have a receptacle utilizing both sides. Besides it would not receive certification. The one item that still tingles my brain is the physical limit to how far the user facing side may extend outwards, in any direction. We have seen some fancy "bulbs" on pc-cards in the past.
For example: http://pascal.hansotten.com/uploads/electronics/images/delockparallel.jpg
That one extends in all directions right out of the pc-card enclosure. Might even block the ejector.
So do receptacles need a clearance around the slot or do cards need to stay inside. And may a receptacle block the user facing side, for waterproofing etc.
So what can be argued is: will the few things added to every boards to provide the SoC specific functionalities be compensated by the things not needed for those who will get it anyways. That's a trade-of, additional price will also be a factor.
But providing additional interface on the far end of the card is no philosophical problem to me. Especially for ubiquitous things like ethernet, I can't think of this being a locking-in feature. After all these boards are designed to have a long lifespan, so the need to upgrade is not as important.
And if (and only if) a future upgrade does not provide it, then you always be able to switch to an USB one, if (and only if) you still need it...
i always thought, y'know, things like HDMI would be ubiquitous / common enough that you would always be able to find an upgraded computer card with USB-OTG and HDMI: the impact of specialisation at the *user-facing* end never hit my tiny brain :) huh.
In my computer life I've seen 2 wired net techs (BNC & eth), whereas I've used 5 for display (VGA, BNC, DVI, HDMI, DP). I'm OK with USB because of its backward compatibility (I'm still not sure it will stay that way) So I'm not sure trying too hard to guess the future is mandated here, just being pragmatic. Which I can (and have) be(en) convinced EOMA68 is...
But I'm convinced that providing as much of the SoC functionalities as pragmatically possible is better. Either by enabling more widespread adoption, or by avoiding the need for USB-based addons.
My guess is that the USB type C connector is probably going to be standard. It's already got USB 2, 3, Power, DisplayPort, MHL,HDMI,Thunderbolt, Analog audio and Ethernet is being discussed.
Still a single port can only issue a single mode at the same time at once, power can be mixed. So multiple ports are needed if you need those things in parallel. And it does need a capable switch tho pass everything output to a single port.
I really hope that ethernet comes through on USB-C, RJ type connectors were not meant to endure so many push and pull cycles and survive bags and other cables.
-- Vincent Legoll
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-
Adam Van Ymeren -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
mike.valk＠gmail.com -
Vincent Legoll