hiya folks ok much as a reminder to myself but also to let people know:
* looks like i'm going to hope2016 (http://hope.net) in new york if anyone's in the area and is thinking of attending.
* i'm currently building mainline u-boot (working) and mainline sunxi-next to see if it will work. i have a modified dtb from the cubieboard2 which worked previously when i tried a 3.15 nand rc5 fork by bbrezillon, it.. .ah... ended up with corrupted nand at the time (from u-boot. oops).
* still TODO is a slashdot article, last one some people didn't like (editors?) and dropped it into binspam....
* the comparisons laptop update i added both sets of suggested mods (thanks to you both for the prompting).
we do have one more consideration here, someone has pointed out that they're really not happy at the potential "personal criticism" of the vera apparatus arm64 team... there isn't any (there's not a single personal pronoun in the entire section). the update is there to show the effectiveness of the ethics, approach and implied (or explicitly-stated) committment to "open-ness"... and their wiki is shut off, there's no mailing list... i don't know what to do here because if i can't reach the team i can't offer them an opportunity to say something... suggestions welcome.
* i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign, approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone, USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated on that one.
ok enough, feedback appreciated.
l.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:34:06AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
- i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign, approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone, USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated on that one.
Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do it, don't doubt.
I think SOCs are too difficult to choose. All of them have one problem or other. You can't immediately have a dozen CPU cards with different SOCs to pick for. But if you can have a CPU card without CPU, then you dodge the problem nicely.
SOCs have boot problems, power problems, performance problems, legal problems in their SDKs, support problems, PR problems, conflict mineral problems, labour rights problems... You can't pick the good one, just one that is the least bad to you. But a supporter may give slightly different weights to the problems and reach a completely different conclusion. Yet the EOMA68 concept is attactive. Forcing backers to either buy useless peripherals or buy a SOC they have already decided against is holding back supporters.
If a backer can buy a pass through card so that meanwhile they can use their existing mobile phones or tablets or Pyras or SBCs or whatever (an SBC in a box is sometimes not so big to carry compared to a 15" laptop, and a 15" lightweight laptop should be much more comfortable to work on than a phone or tablet) and they can wait for their prefered SOC to get into a future CPU card, they'll have an easier time backing you. If cables are long enough with the laptop and passthrough card, they can use their desktop PC from the sofa or bed, etc.
At the same time, having the computer attached by a couple of cables to the laptop is still uncomfortable enough to justify buying a real CPU card. So the pass through card does not lead to less CPU cards sold. It justs justifies buying more laptops.
I think it would be better if the laptop or better, the "pass through" card would have a wireless bridge of some kind but that's too difficult or unfeasible for the benefit... possibly easier to use two CPU cards with wifi dongles.
But then I'm bad at marketing, so I might be wrong...
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis@tinet.cat wrote:
If a backer can buy a pass through card so that meanwhile they can use their existing mobile phones or tablets or Pyras or SBCs or whatever (an SBC in a box is sometimes not so big to carry compared to a 15" laptop, and a 15" lightweight laptop should be much more comfortable to work on than a phone or tablet) and they can wait for their prefered SOC to get into a future CPU card, they'll have an easier time backing you.
that's what i figured... yeah. more tomorrow, really late here
I think it would be better if the laptop or better, the "pass through" card would have a wireless bridge of some kind but that's too difficult or unfeasible for the benefit... possibly easier to use two CPU cards with wifi dongles.
ooo really good idea... complex, would need a hell of a lot of bandwidth and/or processing power...
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis@tinet.cat wrote:
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:34:06AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
- i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign, approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone, USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated on that one.
Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do it, don't doubt.
it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot - about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a single-sided 2-layer PCB
I think SOCs are too difficult to choose. All of them have one problem or other. You can't immediately have a dozen CPU cards with different SOCs to pick for. But if you can have a CPU card without CPU, then you dodge the problem nicely.
exactly, and it's kinda cool.
At the same time, having the computer attached by a couple of cables to the laptop is still uncomfortable enough to justify buying a real CPU card. So the pass through card does not lead to less CPU cards sold. It justs justifies buying more laptops.
exactly.
then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the version 2 as they DRM-locked it.
l.
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:59:04PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis@tinet.cat wrote:
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:34:06AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
- i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign, approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone, USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated on that one.
Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do it, don't doubt.
it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot
- about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a
bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a single-sided 2-layer PCB
No idea about those calculations. You said around $40 for the backer to get one, that sounds about right. Psicologically it's still more than half the price of a CPU card, and it doesn't carry SOC, RAM or storage. That may be countered with just publishing the BOMs of both the passthrough card and CPU card (if they aren't already). But even without that, $40 it's not so off the mark.
If it can be 30$ or 32$ you may sell more. If it comes to $50 it starts to look too close to $65 (CPU card) or to $55 (desktop, but I'm not sure this is a valid comparison) and people might think twice. I can't calculate the point where the sales volume outweights the lower profit per unit. No idea.
I'd even say ask for more PCBs than pledges to anticipate future sells, but it's not my own money I'm playing with so I'll refrain. I'm sligthly surprised by the small amount of laptop orders so far, and I haven't thought much, but I don't see the passthrough card+ desktop as even remotely as interesting as pasthrough card + laptop.
Other components are unique (like female connectors instead of male or something) or can they be grouped with components for other rewards and so enjoy the price of larger orders ? I don't have an idea of MOQs, price/quantity intervals or anything.
Another factor is time. If it is ready to offer before the deadline it makes sense. If prototypes, testing and so on takes longer, then maybe it'll have to wait to future campaigns...
then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the version 2 as they DRM-locked it.
I haven't seen that. I don't really imagine what it is right now. Worth looking it up ? I lose interest when reading DRM...
Whatever it is it can't possibly hold the promise to host a EOMA68 cpu card with someone's favorite SOC in the future, can it?
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis@tinet.cat wrote:
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:59:04PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Xavi Drudis Ferran xdrudis@tinet.cat wrote:
El Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:34:06AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton deia:
- i'm thinking of putting the "pass through" card on the campaign, approximate pledge amount $40 (because in low-volume expected it'll be about a $20 BOM), that would turn the laptop housing into a battery-operated screen, keyboard and trackpad for any smartphone, USB-HDMI-dongle-PC, laptop or desktop PC. thoughts appreciated on that one.
Go for it !
I'm not aware of the cost you would have to bring it in before the campaign deadline (is it finished, tested, ready?), but if you can do it, don't doubt.
it's been planned for a long time, i can estimate the BOM (not a lot
- about $6 of components) it's the PCB manufacturing that will be a
bit more than usual if the quantities are small, even if it's a single-sided 2-layer PCB
No idea about those calculations. You said around $40 for the backer to get one, that sounds about right. Psicologically it's still more than half the price of a CPU card, and it doesn't carry SOC, RAM or storage. That may be countered with just publishing the BOMs of both the passthrough card and CPU card (if they aren't already). But even without that, $40 it's not so off the mark.
If it can be 30$ or 32$ you may sell more.
... yeahhh will think about it.
If it comes to $50 it starts to look too close to $65 (CPU card) or to $55 (desktop, but I'm not sure this is a valid comparison) and people might think twice. I can't calculate the point where the sales volume outweights the lower profit per unit. No idea.
you could put the pass-through card into the micro-desktop as well, that's the hilarious bit.
I'd even say ask for more PCBs than pledges to anticipate future sells, but it's not my own money I'm playing with so I'll refrain. I'm sligthly surprised by the small amount of laptop orders so far, and I haven't thought much, but I don't see the passthrough card+ desktop as even remotely as interesting as pasthrough card + laptop.
yeah exactly - look at the http://nexdock.com/cool-uses/ it becomes clear, oh, also, it looks like someone there found a WIFI HDMI adapter of some kind :)
Other components are unique (like female connectors instead of male or something) or can they be grouped with components for other rewards and so enjoy the price of larger orders ? I don't have an idea of MOQs, price/quantity intervals or anything.
nono, i can use the same micro-hdmi and micro-usb-otg as on the EOMA68-A20. getting hold of the cables for tablets and smartphones, have to look those up, can do it in another update, you need a micro-hdmi-to-micro-hdmi and micro-otg-to-micro-otg which i've never heard of so might have to be done as a multi-set of converters... ehh will work it out
Another factor is time. If it is ready to offer before the deadline it makes sense. If prototypes, testing and so on takes longer, then maybe it'll have to wait to future campaigns...
it's simple enough to do (about 20 components) but i feel comfortable explaining to people what's going on.
then again you've probably seen the USB-HDMI dongle PC connected to motorola atrix lapdock "version 1" instructables.... you can't use the version 2 as they DRM-locked it.
I haven't seen that. I don't really imagine what it is right now. Worth looking it up ? I lose interest when reading DRM...
the nexdock is more interesting
Whatever it is it can't possibly hold the promise to host a EOMA68 cpu card with someone's favorite SOC in the future, can it?
:)
placeholder page here http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/
chris (havel) would you like to have a go at making something using that program you use? let's put it on the community_ideas page
l.
I have no idea what you want me to make -_-
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
I have no idea what you want me to make -_-
:)
a better version of this: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/
which explains exactly the same uses as this: http://nexdock.com/cool-uses/
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:39 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
I have no idea what you want me to make -_-
:)
a better version of this: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/passthrough_card/
.. just mayybeeee without the words "taking over the world, one standard at a time".... :)
Simple enough. I'm kind of in the middle of something, though... can I schedule you for say tomorrow, late morning or so...?
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Simple enough. I'm kind of in the middle of something, though... can I schedule you for say tomorrow, late morning or so...?
sure
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