I recently walked through the files on hands.com and found the schematics for the 3 PCBs of the laptop. However, there are multiple versions (PDFs) and I would like to know whether those are the latest. If help is appreciated, I would like to take a look at the schematics. I really want this project to be successful and offering help is probably the best thing I can do ;)
Julius Lehmann
thanks julius. highest numbered versions. redesign needed. creating a block diagram (SVG) similar to miguel's eom68 console would be really handy.
l.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I recently walked through the files on http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEAAHgqV-woAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYnfohNbEUhQHPRs-zIKQPgPBHfAAGAjk/1/t9QxNRQwiA8fZqtpm77ocg/aHR0cDovL2hhbmRzLmNvbQ hands.com http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEAAHgqV-woAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYnfohNbEUhQHPRs-zIKQPgPBHfAAGAjk/2/CY8ILpN6Ld9V3rBGN7-BgQ/aHR0cDovL2hhbmRzLmNvbQ and found the schematics for the 3 PCBs of the laptop. However, there are multiple versions (PDFs) and I would like to know whether those are the latest. If help is appreciated, I would like to take a look at the schematics. I really want this project to be successful and offering help is probably the best thing I can do ;)
Julius Lehmann
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Could you send me a link with the block diagram you described? That would be really useful because then I know what you are talking about ;) (I hope we are talking about the same thing ... I was referring to electronic circuits …)
Julius Lehmann
Am 10.02.2017 um 20:40 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
thanks julius. highest numbered versions. redesign needed. creating a block diagram (SVG) similar to miguel's eom68 console would be really handy.
l.
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de mailto:internet@devpi.de> wrote:
I recently walked through the files on hands.com <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEAAHgqV-woAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYnfohNbEUhQHPRs-zIKQPgPBHfAAGAjk/2/CY8ILpN6Ld9V3rBGN7-BgQ/aHR0cDovL2hhbmRzLmNvbQ> and found the schematics for the 3 PCBs of the laptop. However, there are multiple versions (PDFs) and I would like to know whether those are the latest. If help is appreciated, I would like to take a look at the schematics. I really want this project to be successful and offering help is probably the best thing I can do ;) Julius Lehmann _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook <http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook> Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk>
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, internet@devpi.de wrote:
Could you send me a link with the block diagram you described?
doesn't exist. that's what i was saying: it would be really helpful if you could ask questions after reviewing the highest-revision PDFs in order to make it.
l.
I see. sorry for the misunderstanding ...
Julius Lehmann
On Feb 10, 2017, 23:42, at 23:42, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, internet@devpi.de wrote:
Could you send me a link with the block diagram you described?
doesn't exist. that's what i was saying: it would be really helpful if you could ask questions after reviewing the highest-revision PDFs in order to make it.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
I think this is "Miguel's eoma68 console diagram Luke wrote about: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2014-September/010192.html
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Parobalth parobalth@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is "Miguel's eoma68 console diagram Luke wrote about: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2014-September/010192.html
yehhh that's the one. having a 3-PCB version of that would be *really* handy, plus, julius, you'd learn very very quickly what was going on.
btw sorry i have about 3 topics i haven't been keeping up-to-date with, i know what they are, i haven't forgotten.
l.
I already started looking at PCB3 which is the one with all the power supply stuff on it. As this one is not too complex I think I am good to go, even without such a block diagram. Do you mind if I annotate the PDF file with notes or should I keep suggestions separate?
Julius
On Feb 11, 2017, 12:31, at 12:31, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Parobalth parobalth@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is "Miguel's eoma68 console diagram Luke wrote about:
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2014-September/010192.html
yehhh that's the one. having a 3-PCB version of that would be *really* handy, plus, julius, you'd learn very very quickly what was going on.
btw sorry i have about 3 topics i haven't been keeping up-to-date with, i know what they are, i haven't forgotten.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I already started looking at PCB3 which is the one with all the power supply stuff on it. As this one is not too complex I think I am good to go, even without such a block diagram.
cool. the thing is, it gets complicated from there - what powers what, what controls what.
Do you mind if I annotate the PDF file with notes or should I keep suggestions separate?
you're welcome to do so but as it is a write-only one-way output from a controlled source, annotating such a write-only auto-generated document would be a puzzling thing to do, from that perspective.
the general rule is, comments and discussion is best kept here, then once useful conclusions or information are made which best record the "state of play" those are best placed onto a wiki page, even if it's just cut/paste directly out of the discussion.
that results in an easy way for the discussion to be picked up at any time by reading (and referring) to the wiki page, even after weeks or months have elapsed.
anywhere here http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ would do.
l.
I was talking about the inbuilt function of PDFs to make annotations ... e.g. in okular you can put notes anywhere you want and then overwrite the original PDF. AFAIK those notes should be accessible in every other viewer.
Additionally, those notes go into a discussion, so it is easier to keep track of them. Duplication is probably not an issue ;)
Julius
On Feb 11, 2017, at 13:14, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I already started looking at PCB3 which is the one with all the power supply stuff on it. As this one is not too complex I think I am good to go, even without such a block diagram.
cool. the thing is, it gets complicated from there - what powers what, what controls what.
Do you mind if I annotate the PDF file with notes or should I keep suggestions separate?
you're welcome to do so but as it is a write-only one-way output from a controlled source, annotating such a write-only auto-generated document would be a puzzling thing to do, from that perspective.
the general rule is, comments and discussion is best kept here, then once useful conclusions or information are made which best record the "state of play" those are best placed onto a wiki page, even if it's just cut/paste directly out of the discussion.
that results in an easy way for the discussion to be picked up at any time by reading (and referring) to the wiki page, even after weeks or months have elapsed.
anywhere here http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ would do.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Feb 11, 2017, 13:14, at 13:14, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I already started looking at PCB3 which is the one with all the power
supply stuff on it. As this one is not too complex I think I am good to go, even without such a block diagram.
cool. the thing is, it gets complicated from there - what powers what, what controls what.
Do you mind if I annotate the PDF file with notes or should I keep
suggestions separate?
you're welcome to do so but as it is a write-only one-way output from a controlled source, annotating such a write-only auto-generated document would be a puzzling thing to do, from that perspective.
the general rule is, comments and discussion is best kept here, then once useful conclusions or information are made which best record the "state of play" those are best placed onto a wiki page, even if it's just cut/paste directly out of the discussion.
that results in an easy way for the discussion to be picked up at any time by reading (and referring) to the wiki page, even after weeks or months have elapsed.
anywhere here http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ would do.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I was talking about the inbuilt function of PDFs to make annotations ... e.g. in okular you can put notes anywhere you want and then overwrite the original PDF. AFAIK those notes should be accessible in every other viewer.
when i auto-generate the next version of the PDF from the schematics, increasing the revision number in the process thus outputting a completely different document, those annotations that you are kindly considering making would not be included, would they?
if however you find it easier to do annotations on the PDF than it is to put them in a separate document feel free to do what you find easiest. particularly as it's 2D and text is, obviously, linear. however, there, there's quadrant numbering and you can also take image snapshots (screenshots) then write on those... not as good but it's what i use to communicate with factories.
ultimately though notes would be great here rather than anywhere else http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/
l.
You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net ;), this should definitely make things easier ...
On Feb 11, 2017, at 14:20, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I was talking about the inbuilt function of PDFs to make annotations ... e.g. in okular you can put notes anywhere you want and then overwrite the original PDF. AFAIK those notes should be accessible in every other viewer.
when i auto-generate the next version of the PDF from the schematics, increasing the revision number in the process thus outputting a completely different document, those annotations that you are kindly considering making would not be included, would they? if however you find it easier to do annotations on the PDF than it is to put them in a separate document feel free to do what you find easiest. particularly as it's 2D and text is, obviously, linear. however, there, there's quadrant numbering and you can also take image snapshots (screenshots) then write on those... not as good but it's what i use to communicate with factories. ultimately though notes would be great here rather than anywhere elsehttp://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ l. arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Feb 11, 2017, 14:20, at 14:20, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I was talking about the inbuilt function of PDFs to make annotations
...
e.g. in okular you can put notes anywhere you want and then overwrite
the
original PDF. AFAIK those notes should be accessible in every other
viewer.
when i auto-generate the next version of the PDF from the schematics, increasing the revision number in the process thus outputting a completely different document, those annotations that you are kindly considering making would not be included, would they?
if however you find it easier to do annotations on the PDF than it is to put them in a separate document feel free to do what you find easiest. particularly as it's 2D and text is, obviously, linear. however, there, there's quadrant numbering and you can also take image snapshots (screenshots) then write on those... not as good but it's what i use to communicate with factories.
ultimately though notes would be great here rather than anywhere else http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/ADsAAGXxthMAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYnxLAWdhq4IN3QeehFdPtsyxvowAGAjk/1/9vezu01ILOhdHLCLCGU06A/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQ ;), this should definitely make things easier ...
yay, magic. also stops duplication and AOL-style me-too postings. if anyone remembers the AOL bbs...
l.
First look at PCB3 is finished, it is of course possible I am missing something. Anyways, following caught my eyes:
1. the usb otg charger ic has two capacitors between regn and ground, total value: 11.5uF, datasheet says 1uF. probably no issue though 2. 10k thermistor for the otg charger is connected to voltage divider and through another thermistor to bat-v (fuel guage), datasheet says it should be connected to ground (i am not to sure about the guage though, reference application is pretty chaotic and complex) 3. status leds should be connected to sys-v (nothing to do if dvcc = sys-v) 4. EOMA68-5V0 is not connected to anything, this results in an unpowered card on pcb1 (which is bad); should probably be connected to vcc-5v0) 5. level shifter is completely unnecessary because lcd-vcc = vrefttl = 3v3; connect 10k pullup resistors to vrefttl and add pullup for chg_irq to vrefttl 6. because eoma68-i2c is not used on this pcb remove pullups
I hope this helps and if I misunderstood something, please let me know. The fuel guage circuit is more complex than expected, I let you know if there is an issue.
Do you want me to put all this on rhombus-tech.net? If so, could you give me some instructions where and how to put it? Additionally, to edit the pages I need some kind of account creation password …
Julius Lehmann
On 11.02.2017 15:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de mailto:internet@devpi.de> wrote:
You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/ADsAAGXxthMAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYnxLAWdhq4IN3QeehFdPtsyxvowAGAjk/1/9vezu01ILOhdHLCLCGU06A/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQ> ;), this should definitely make things easier ...yay, magic. also stops duplication and AOL-style me-too postings. if anyone remembers the AOL bbs...
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
First look at PCB3 is finished, it is of course possible I am missing something. Anyways, following caught my eyes:
- the usb otg charger ic has two capacitors between regn and ground,
total value: 11.5uF, datasheet says 1uF. probably no issue though 2. 10k thermistor for the otg charger is connected to voltage divider and through another thermistor to bat-v (fuel guage), datasheet says it should be connected to ground (i am not to sure about the guage though, reference application is pretty chaotic and complex) 3. status leds should be connected to sys-v (nothing to do if dvcc = sys-v) 4. EOMA68-5V0 is not connected to anything, this results in an unpowered card on pcb1 (which is bad); should probably be connected to vcc-5v0) 5. level shifter is completely unnecessary because lcd-vcc = vrefttl = 3v3; connect 10k pullup resistors to vrefttl and add pullup for chg_irq to vrefttl
TI bat IC is 1.8v.. wasn't happy with that.
- because eoma68-i2c is not used on this pcb remove pullups
_great_. encourages me to take a look and check.
I hope this helps and if I misunderstood something, please let me know. The fuel guage circuit is more complex than expected, I let you know if there is an issue.
Do you want me to put all this on rhombus-tech.net? If so, could you give me some instructions where and how to put it?
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcb2/ then just work it out, put whatever you feel is appropriate and i'll review it and move / adjust if necessary.
Additionally, to edit the pages I need some kind of account creation password …
ah! sorry, i added that recently after there were attacks on the page -- it's "passwordreqd"
Julius Lehmann
On 11.02.2017 15:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/1/MkNnISYr4-hglOBjM6YUqw/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY3Jvd2RzdXBwbHkuY29tL2VvbWE2OA
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/2/0gqbLOpYPVPZzmn-W6fIhw/aHR0cDovL3QyMjQubWp0Lmx1L2xuay9BRHNBQUdYeHRoTUFBQUFBQUFBQUFHYkUyd2tBQVNIbEZOVUFBQUFBQUFaSGdBQllueExBV2RocTRJTjNRZWVoRmRQdHN5eHZvd0FHQWprLzEvOXZlenUwMUlMT2hkSExDTENHVTA2QS9hSFIwY0RvdkwzSm9iMjFpZFhNdGRHVmphQzV1WlhR ;), this should definitely make things easier ...
yay, magic. also stops duplication and AOL-style me-too postings. if anyone remembers the AOL bbs...
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.ukhttp://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/3/QzsVz1TKCdXr54efyTuzyg/aHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLnBoY29tcC5jby51ay9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FybS1uZXRib29r Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
hey luke,
I just wanted to put my suggestions on rhombus-tech.net but unfortunately i couldn't figure out how to add a new subpage. to keep everything tidy and clear this would be really helpful …
i also updated the specification for the pcb connectors, there was something wrong between pcb3 and pcb1: sys-v was 4.2v directly from the battery but it is 5v and the first pin is ground instead of usb_otg_5v0
i will update the other specifications as well as i walk through the other schematics …
Julius Lehmann
Am 12.02.2017 um 18:58 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de mailto:internet@devpi.de> wrote:
First look at PCB3 is finished, it is of course possible I am missing something. Anyways, following caught my eyes: 1. the usb otg charger ic has two capacitors between regn and ground, total value: 11.5uF, datasheet says 1uF. probably no issue though 2. 10k thermistor for the otg charger is connected to voltage divider and through another thermistor to bat-v (fuel guage), datasheet says it should be connected to ground (i am not to sure about the guage though, reference application is pretty chaotic and complex) 3. status leds should be connected to sys-v (nothing to do if dvcc = sys-v) 4. EOMA68-5V0 is not connected to anything, this results in an unpowered card on pcb1 (which is bad); should probably be connected to vcc-5v0) 5. level shifter is completely unnecessary because lcd-vcc = vrefttl = 3v3; connect 10k pullup resistors to vrefttl and add pullup for chg_irq to vrefttlTI bat IC is 1.8v.. wasn't happy with that.
1. because eoma68-i2c is not used on this pcb remove pullups_great_. encourages me to take a look and check.
I hope this helps and if I misunderstood something, please let me know. The fuel guage circuit is more complex than expected, I let you know if there is an issue. Do you want me to put all this on rhombus-tech.net <http://rhombus-tech.net>? If so, could you give me some instructions where and how to put it?http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcb2/ then just work it out, put whatever you feel is appropriate and i'll review it and move / adjust if necessary.
Additionally, to edit the pages I need some kind of account creation password …ah! sorry, i added that recently after there were attacks on the page -- it's "passwordreqd"
Julius Lehmann On 11.02.2017 15:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/1/MkNnISYr4-hglOBjM6YUqw/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY3Jvd2RzdXBwbHkuY29tL2VvbWE2OA> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de <mailto:internet@devpi.de>> wrote: You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/2/0gqbLOpYPVPZzmn-W6fIhw/aHR0cDovL3QyMjQubWp0Lmx1L2xuay9BRHNBQUdYeHRoTUFBQUFBQUFBQUFHYkUyd2tBQVNIbEZOVUFBQUFBQUFaSGdBQllueExBV2RocTRJTjNRZWVoRmRQdHN5eHZvd0FHQWprLzEvOXZlenUwMUlMT2hkSExDTENHVTA2QS9hSFIwY0RvdkwzSm9iMjFpZFhNdGRHVmphQzV1WlhR> ;), this should definitely make things easier ... yay, magic. also stops duplication and AOL-style me-too postings. if anyone remembers the AOL bbs... l. _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk>http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAHqt4STUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYoHFzFqkoe5j4S8W7hrvGQMA-BwAGAjk/3/QzsVz1TKCdXr54efyTuzyg/aHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLnBoY29tcC5jby51ay9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FybS1uZXRib29r> Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk>_______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook <http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook> Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk>
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 4:26 PM, internet@devpi.de wrote:
hey luke,
I just wanted to put my suggestions on rhombus-tech.net but unfortunately i couldn't figure out how to add a new subpage. to keep everything tidy and clear this would be really helpful …
just add text leave it to me i'll git pull what you add then use a text editor it's a lot easier.
i also updated the specification for the pcb connectors, there was something wrong between pcb3 and pcb1: sys-v was 4.2v directly from the battery but it is 5v and the first pin is ground instead of usb_otg_5v0
yep i know. i'm adding a 5v boost converter to PCB3.
i will update the other specifications as well as i walk through the other schematics …
Julius Lehmann Am 12.02.2017 um 18:58 schrieb Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEEAIEm6x_IAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYqHXBu7svXnqrQGqioHzcKxJUzQAGAjk/1/GJuXJr4EE30kGpseDsELXw/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY3Jvd2RzdXBwbHkuY29tL2VvbWE2OA
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
First look at PCB3 is finished, it is of course possible I am missing something. Anyways, following caught my eyes:
- the usb otg charger ic has two capacitors between regn and ground,
total value: 11.5uF, datasheet says 1uF. probably no issue though 2. 10k thermistor for the otg charger is connected to voltage divider and through another thermistor to bat-v (fuel guage), datasheet says it should be connected to ground (i am not to sure about the guage though, reference application is pretty chaotic and complex) 3. status leds should be connected to sys-v (nothing to do if dvcc = sys-v) 4. EOMA68-5V0 is not connected to anything, this results in an unpowered card on pcb1 (which is bad); should probably be connected to vcc-5v0) 5. level shifter is completely unnecessary because lcd-vcc = vrefttl = 3v3; connect 10k pullup resistors to vrefttl and add pullup for chg_irq to vrefttl
TI bat IC is 1.8v.. wasn't happy with that.
- because eoma68-i2c is not used on this pcb remove pullups
_great_. encourages me to take a look and check.
I hope this helps and if I misunderstood something, please let me know. The fuel guage circuit is more complex than expected, I let you know if there is an issue.
Do you want me to put all this on rhombus-tech.net http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEEAIEm6x_IAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYqHXBu7svXnqrQGqioHzcKxJUzQAGAjk/2/E35lvbkG1Dh_Uib7FsHh1A/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQ? If so, could you give me some instructions where and how to put it?
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcb2/ http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEEAIEm6x_IAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYqHXBu7svXnqrQGqioHzcKxJUzQAGAjk/3/x5FUHfaypHPNrYKA7pqXjw/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQvY29tbXVuaXR5X2lkZWFzL2xhcHRvcF8xNWluL3BjYjIv then just work it out, put whatever you feel is appropriate and i'll review it and move / adjust if necessary.
Additionally, to edit the pages I need some kind of account creation password …
ah! sorry, i added that recently after there were attacks on the page -- it's "passwordreqd"
Julius Lehmann
On 11.02.2017 15:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEEAIEm6x_IAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYqHXBu7svXnqrQGqioHzcKxJUzQAGAjk/4/PLIU9yiiO54fWbRpE3PiMA/aHR0cDovL3QyMjQubWp0Lmx1L2xuay9BRU1BSHF0NFNUVUFBQUFBQUFBQUFHYkUyd2tBQVNIbEZOVUFBQUFBQUFaSGdBQllvSEZ6RnFrb2U1ajRTOFc3aHJ2R1FNQS1Cd0FHQWprLzEvTWtObklTWXI0LWhnbE9Cak02WVVxdy9hSFIwY0hNNkx5OTNkM2N1WTNKdmQyUnpkWEJ3YkhrdVkyOXRMMlZ2YldFMk9B
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
You are absolutely right. Putting comments separately is the best thing to do. I just found the edit button on rhombus-tech.net http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEEAIEm6x_IAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYqHXBu7svXnqrQGqioHzcKxJUzQAGAjk/5/jLEjSL9RIxsci-UG9kLing/aHR0cDovL3QyMjQubWp0Lmx1L2xuay9BRU1BSHF0NFNUVUFBQUFBQUFBQUFHYkUyd2tBQVNIbEZOVUFBQUFBQUFaSGdBQllvSEZ6RnFrb2U1ajRTOFc3aHJ2R1FNQS1Cd0FHQWprLzIvMGdxYkxPcFlQVlBaem1uLVc2Zklody9hSFIwY0RvdkwzUXlNalF1YldwMExteDFMMnh1YXk5QlJITkJRVWRZZUhSb1RVRkJRVUZCUVVGQlFVRkhZa1V5ZDJ0QlFWTkliRVpPVlVGQlFVRkJRVUZhU0dkQlFsbHVlRXhCVjJSb2NUUkpUak5SWldWb1JtUlFkSE41ZUhadmQwRkhRV3ByTHpFdk9YWmxlblV3TVVsTVQyaGtTRXhEVEVOSFZUQTJRUzloU0ZJd1kwUnZka3d6U205aU1qRnBaRmhOZEdSSFZtcGhRelYxV2xoUg ;), this should definitely make things easier ...
yay, magic. also stops duplication and AOL-style me-too postings. if anyone remembers the AOL bbs...
l.
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btw annoyinly the BQ27542 is designed for 1.8v operation, and the STM32F072 it's connected to operates its GPIO at 3.3v. suggestions on how to deal with this appreciated.
l.
For all following suggestions you need a 1.8v power supply (buck converter). First, you could disable internal pullups on the stm and remove all pullups on PCB2 for the signals from the battery ic. Because the signals are probably all opendrain you just need to pullup the signals on pcb3 to 1.8v; either the stm or the battery ic can pull the lines low to "activate" them. The stm should recognize 1.8v as high ...
Second, you could add a txs0104 or two txs0102 (probably cheaper, you can get those from aliexpress) for level shifting. They have internal pullups, so you can remove the other pullup resistors as well.
Julius Lehmann
On Feb 19, 2017, 22:56, at 22:56, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
btw annoyinly the BQ27542 is designed for 1.8v operation, and the STM32F072 it's connected to operates its GPIO at 3.3v. suggestions on how to deal with this appreciated.
l.
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On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
For all following suggestions you need a 1.8v power supply (buck converter). First, you could disable internal pullups on the stm and remove all pullups on PCB2 for the signals from the battery ic. Because the signals are probably all opendrain you just need to pullup the signals on pcb3 to 1.8v; either the stm or the battery ic can pull the lines low to "activate" them. The stm should recognize 1.8v as high ...
Second, you could add a txs0104 or two txs0102 (probably cheaper, you can get those from aliexpress) for level shifting. They have internal pullups, so you can remove the other pullup resistors as well.
yeahhh i was going to use a txs0104, but then decided to remove it from the board... i'll put it back. there are a couple of other signals (the IRQs) that need to be level-shifted up as well
*sigh* a 1.8v voltage regulator just for a few micro-amps... :)
Julius Lehmann On Feb 19, 2017, at 22:56, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
btw annoyinly the BQ27542 is designed for 1.8v operation, and the STM32F072 it's connected to operates its GPIO at 3.3v. suggestions on how to deal with this appreciated.
l.
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ok turns out - from what i am reading of the datasheets - that the bq24193 can cope with running from 3.3v, it looks like it doesn't mind: the limit of the I2C and other pins is 6V.
the bq27542 is a different matter (i thought it was 1.8v, it's not: it's 2.5v). it has its own 2.5v LDO on-board but the maximum input voltage is 2.5v for its I2C and HDQ (status / IRQ pin). sooo what i've done is, connect the 2.5v output (REG25) to the level-shifter, and the other side to VREFTTL.
i updated the schematics pdfs.
l.
I took another look and i am pretty satisfied with the results ;). However, a few things still need attention (i wrote it down on rhombus-tech.net)
Julius
On Feb 20, 2017, 09:54, at 09:54, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
ok turns out - from what i am reading of the datasheets - that the bq24193 can cope with running from 3.3v, it looks like it doesn't mind: the limit of the I2C and other pins is 6V.
the bq27542 is a different matter (i thought it was 1.8v, it's not: it's 2.5v). it has its own 2.5v LDO on-board but the maximum input voltage is 2.5v for its I2C and HDQ (status / IRQ pin). sooo what i've done is, connect the 2.5v output (REG25) to the level-shifter, and the other side to VREFTTL.
i updated the schematics pdfs.
l.
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On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I took another look and i am pretty satisfied with the results ;).
yeah, thank you for encouraging me to do it.
However, a few things still need attention (i wrote it down on rhombus-tech.net http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEAAHq9bWRkAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYquow53AL_eKiTEKLFD2cPfS26wAGAjk/1/8CS5JnYHwfGJh6YxzsKZ1g/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQ )
ok let's go through them:
PCB3 - Power Board
- connect thermistor for BQ24193 USB OTG Charger between BAT_NTC and GND (not TS which is wired to the fuel guage)
yep, cut/paste error there
- change DVCC to SYS-V (otherwise LEDs won't work)
yep done
- pin 2 of connector J2 (to PCB1) should go to VCC-5V0 (we need power for the EOMA68 card)
ah no. rrright, the way it works is:
* EOMA68 Card Power is actually "OTG-like". as in, you should expect it to be *reversible* on demand, because there could actually be an OTG charger plugged into the card, providing power *in* to the Housing. this is why the SY6280 is required.
* the laptop's main components need a *separate* 5.0V power rail, for the USB Hub, Audio, LCD, USB2 connectors etc. etc.
* power could actually come *in* through the EOMA68-5V0 line and has to go *in* to VBUS... which... argh, is missing so that needs sorting.
* power can also go *out* through the EOMA68-5V0 line (from VBUS) when the bq24193 is put in "boost" mode (this is for OTG power compliance) ... which is missing and entirely defeats the purpose of *using* the bq24193 in the first place :)
*sigh* so still have to sort that out, creating a two-way power path between VBUS and EOMA68-5V0 at *specifically* 5.0v, coping with 1.5A sustained current, and under user-control... preferably without using too many components. SY6280's are my favourite "power cutting IC". there's one spare pin on PCB3 J4 which could be used to control its enabling.
my first guess at a circuit would be a schottky diode pointing from EOMA68-5V0 to VBUS to act as "power in to VBUS" and the SY6280 to act as "power out". however, a *five amp* power regulator is going to be needed on VIN to ensure that the input voltage never exceeds 5V (which it could at the moment).
thoughts appreciated.
.
The power issue is pretty tough I think. Do you want to allow charging from both sides (12v dc jack and eoma-5v0) or does the power from the card only act as additional power for the system (without charging and just taking the load off the battery)? How do you want to control the power switch (SY6280) and detect whether the card is passive or active (taking power/providing power)?
These are just a few thoughts I wanted to share …
Julius
On 21.02.2017 03:21, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de mailto:internet@devpi.de> wrote:
I took another look and i am pretty satisfied with the results ;).yeah, thank you for encouraging me to do it.
However, a few things still need attention (i wrote it down on rhombus-tech.net <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEAAHq9bWRkAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYquow53AL_eKiTEKLFD2cPfS26wAGAjk/1/8CS5JnYHwfGJh6YxzsKZ1g/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQ>)ok let's go through them:
PCB3 - Power Board
- connect thermistor for BQ24193 USB OTG Charger between BAT_NTC and GND (not TS which is wired to the fuel guage)
yep, cut/paste error there
- change DVCC to SYS-V (otherwise LEDs won't work)
yep done
- pin 2 of connector J2 (to PCB1) should go to VCC-5V0 (we need power for the EOMA68 card)
ah no. rrright, the way it works is:
- EOMA68 Card Power is actually "OTG-like". as in, you should expect
it to be *reversible* on demand, because there could actually be an OTG charger plugged into the card, providing power *in* to the Housing. this is why the SY6280 is required.
- the laptop's main components need a *separate* 5.0V power rail, for
the USB Hub, Audio, LCD, USB2 connectors etc. etc.
- power could actually come *in* through the EOMA68-5V0 line and has
to go *in* to VBUS... which... argh, is missing so that needs sorting.
- power can also go *out* through the EOMA68-5V0 line (from VBUS) when
the bq24193 is put in "boost" mode (this is for OTG power compliance) ... which is missing and entirely defeats the purpose of *using* the bq24193 in the first place :)
*sigh* so still have to sort that out, creating a two-way power path between VBUS and EOMA68-5V0 at *specifically* 5.0v, coping with 1.5A sustained current, and under user-control... preferably without using too many components. SY6280's are my favourite "power cutting IC". there's one spare pin on PCB3 J4 which could be used to control its enabling.
my first guess at a circuit would be a schottky diode pointing from EOMA68-5V0 to VBUS to act as "power in to VBUS" and the SY6280 to act as "power out". however, a *five amp* power regulator is going to be needed on VIN to ensure that the input voltage never exceeds 5V (which it could at the moment).
thoughts appreciated.
.
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On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
The power issue is pretty tough I think. Do you want to allow charging from both sides (12v dc jack and eoma-5v0)
yes.
or does the power from the card only act as additional power for the system (without charging and just taking the load off the battery)?
no. an OTG cable into the EOMA68 Card should be capable of charging (not necessarily *running* the system as it's far too much current required).
How do you want to control the power switch (SY6280) and detect whether the card is passive or active (taking power/providing power)?
usual OTG software detection, then communicated (quickly) to avoid any current bun-fights. OTG generates IRQs from the cable being plugged in (usual way) - the extra bit will be to ensure that the required GPIOs are pulled high/low - there's quite a few.
l.
I have found an interesting looking solution for USB C on the internet. This is from a datasheet of a USB C Power Delivery controller and should also be useful for the laptop because current be transferred in two different directions as well. The setup uses different MOSFETS for controlling the current and has the ability to route it to a different location depending on the current direction. However, you still need a switch (in this case two but they are complementary). Additionally, you could use this to charge the battery and separate it from the rest of the system, if power is incoming from the card, and if the card needs power, you can simply switch it to the 5v system which should be constantly connected to the battery (boost converter).
You can find it on page 20 in the top left corner in this (http://www.cypress.com/file/140976/download) datasheet.
Julius Lehmann
On 23.02.2017 09:43, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Internet <internet@devpi.de mailto:internet@devpi.de> wrote:
The power issue is pretty tough I think. Do you want to allow charging from both sides (12v dc jack and eoma-5v0)yes.
or does the power from the card only act as additional power for the system (without charging and just taking the load off the battery)?no. an OTG cable into the EOMA68 Card should be capable of charging (not necessarily *running* the system as it's far too much current required).
How do you want to control the power switch (SY6280) and detect whether the card is passive or active (taking power/providing power)?usual OTG software detection, then communicated (quickly) to avoid any current bun-fights. OTG generates IRQs from the cable being plugged in (usual way) - the extra bit will be to ensure that the required GPIOs are pulled high/low - there's quite a few.
l.
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You can find it on page 20 in the top left corner in this (http://www.cypress.com/file/140976/download) datasheet.
ok that link came with adverts attached on gmail so it's here: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/001-93639_CCG1_Datasheet...
l.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
You can find it on page 20 in the top left corner in this (http://www.cypress.com/file/140976/download) datasheet.
ok that link came with adverts attached on gmail so it's here: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/001-93639_CCG1_Datasheet...
yyyehhhh.... lots of Power P-FETs and N-FETs... about 4 or 5 that i can count.... not a big fan of that kind of design strategy, i much prefer the simplicity of integrated solutions, not least that they save quite a lot of space.
except of course they have to do _exactly_ what you need...
thanks julius - was there an app note / reference design around?
l.
I agree that integrated solutions are better but maybe i find one which has that kind of power fets already in it.
There is no application note but luckily here (http://www.cypress.com/documentation/reference-designs/ccg1-type-c-legacy-us...) is a reference design for download. I am not too sure, though, if that helps.
Julius
On Feb 25, 2017, 04:15, at 04:15, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
You can find it on page 20 in the top left corner in this
(http://www.cypress.com/file/140976/download) datasheet.
ok that link came with adverts attached on gmail so it's here:
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/001-93639_CCG1_Datasheet...
yyyehhhh.... lots of Power P-FETs and N-FETs... about 4 or 5 that i can count.... not a big fan of that kind of design strategy, i much prefer the simplicity of integrated solutions, not least that they save quite a lot of space.
except of course they have to do _exactly_ what you need...
thanks julius - was there an app note / reference design around?
l.
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After thinking a while about it I would say the SY6280 is probably the simplest solution of all. However, for the required functionality you would need two of them to route the power accordingly (one switch for charging, one for powering the card)…
Julius
On 25.02.2017 08:51, Internet wrote:
I agree that integrated solutions are better but maybe i find one which has that kind of power fets already in it.
There is no application note but luckily here (http://www.cypress.com/documentation/reference-designs/ccg1-type-c-legacy-us... http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAH4-ipEUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYsTeTzX6MPuPYQhKY_qkUCi15RQAGAjk/1/oSBGCdhMdUg-7vJCsXJuTA/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jeXByZXNzLmNvbS9kb2N1bWVudGF0aW9uL3JlZmVyZW5jZS1kZXNpZ25zL2NjZzEtdHlwZS1jLWxlZ2FjeS11c2ItZGV2aWNlLWNhYmxlLXBhZGRsZS1jYXJkLXJlZmVyZW5jZS1zY2hlbWF0aWNz) is a reference design for download. I am not too sure, though, if that helps.
Julius On Feb 25, 2017, at 04:15, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net mailto:lkcl@lkcl.net> wrote:
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAH4-ipEUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYsTeTzX6MPuPYQhKY_qkUCi15RQAGAjk/2/l8e1ZMiKl8WkDxY2KBfePw/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY3Jvd2RzdXBwbHkuY29tL2VvbWE2OA> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> wrote: You can find it on page 20 in the top left corner in this (http://www.cypress.com/file/140976/download <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAH4-ipEUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYsTeTzX6MPuPYQhKY_qkUCi15RQAGAjk/3/_js_-ClBaoAwJhG9AFLMfw/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jeXByZXNzLmNvbS9maWxlLzE0MDk3Ni9kb3dubG9hZA>) datasheet. ok that link came with adverts attached on gmail so it's here: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/001-93639_CCG1_Datasheet_USB_Type-C_Port_Controller_with_Power_Delivery.pdf <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAH4-ipEUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYsTeTzX6MPuPYQhKY_qkUCi15RQAGAjk/4/zjDut4CbZFTeZoCr-DWzog/aHR0cDovL3Job21idXMtdGVjaC5uZXQvY29tbXVuaXR5X2lkZWFzL2xhcHRvcF8xNWluLzAwMS05MzYzOV9DQ0cxX0RhdGFzaGVldF9VU0JfVHlwZS1DX1BvcnRfQ29udHJvbGxlcl93aXRoX1Bvd2VyX0RlbGl2ZXJ5LnBkZg> yyyehhhh.... lots of Power P-FETs and N-FETs... about 4 or 5 that i can count.... not a big fan of that kind of design strategy, i much prefer the simplicity of integrated solutions, not least that they save quite a lot of space. except of course they have to do _exactly_ what you need... thanks julius - was there an app note / reference design around? l. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook <http://t224.mjt.lu/lnk/AEMAH4-ipEUAAAAAAAAAAGbE2wkAASHlFNUAAAAAAAZHgABYsTeTzX6MPuPYQhKY_qkUCi15RQAGAjk/5/KaqJHoEUrk_QY0AWq2FBfA/aHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLnBoY29tcC5jby51ay9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2FybS1uZXRib29r> Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
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On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
After thinking a while about it I would say the SY6280 is probably the simplest solution of all. However, for the required functionality you would need two of them to route the power accordingly (one switch for charging, one for powering the card)…
there's one already on PCB1.
l.
Yeah, that is true. But the one on PCB1 only cuts power for the USB A ports. It does not act as power switch for the card to provide charging capability. To do that you need two of them on PCB3. One has 5v from the battery as input and the 5v ports of the eoma68 card as output, the other one has the 5v ports from the card as input and the output should be wired to the input of the usb otg charger ic (through a diode otherwise 12v would damage the card). If a usb otg cable is plugged in and the computing card switches the two complementary sy6280, power would go into the usb charger ic and charge the battery which also powers the rest of the system. Power from the system to the computing card would be off because the switch is open.
However, it won't charge from the card, if the 12v adapter is plugged in (because of the protection diode).
I will clarify this on the pcbs page but at the moment I don't have access to a PC.
Julius
On Feb 25, 2017, 12:07, at 12:07, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
After thinking a while about it I would say the SY6280 is probably
the
simplest solution of all. However, for the required functionality you would need two of them to route the power accordingly (one switch for charging, one for powering the card)…
there's one already on PCB1.
l.
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On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
Yeah, that is true. But the one on PCB1 only cuts power for the USB A ports.
ah! then i'm thinking of the microdesktop, and haven't looked at PCB1 recently enough to remember that. i have a vague recollection of deciding to move bidirection power-provision to PCB3.
It does not act as power switch for the card to provide charging capability. To do that you need two of them on PCB3. One has 5v from the battery as input and the 5v ports of the eoma68 card as output, the other one has the 5v ports from the card as input and the output should be wired to the input of the usb otg charger ic (through a diode otherwise 12v would damage the card). If a usb otg cable is plugged in and the computing card switches the two complementary sy6280, power would go into the usb charger ic and charge the battery which also powers the rest of the system. Power from the system to the computing card would be off because the switch is open.
However, it won't charge from the card, if the 12v adapter is plugged in (because of the protection diode).
I will clarify this on the pcbs page but at the moment I don't have access to a PC.
honestly... it would be best done as a diagram, even if it's hand-drawn and then photographed.
i recall tracking down the LT4155 (and then the bq24193 as its replacement) precisely so that external components such as the SY6280's and extra protection diodes *wouldn't be needed*. grrr :)
i _would_ suggest using the AXP209 or something else from X-Powers but i don't believe they can handle this much current (4 to 5 Amps) - certainly the AXP209 can only handle around 2A.
*sigh*...
l.
I added the suggested schematic to http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ . A document from TI about routing power with load switches suggested basically the same except they used their own ics of course.
Hope this helps.
Julius
26. Februar 2017 13:13, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" schrieb: --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 (https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68) On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Internet wrote: Yeah, that is true. But the one on PCB1 only cuts power for the USB A ports. ah! then i'm thinking of the microdesktop, and haven't looked at PCB1 recently enough to remember that. i have a vague recollection of deciding to move bidirection power-provision to PCB3. It does not act as power switch for the card to provide charging capability. To do that you need two of them on PCB3. One has 5v from the battery as input and the 5v ports of the eoma68 card as output, the other one has the 5v ports from the card as input and the output should be wired to the input of the usb otg charger ic (through a diode otherwise 12v would damage the card). If a usb otg cable is plugged in and the computing card switches the two complementary sy6280, power would go into the usb charger ic and charge the battery which also powers the rest of the system. Power from the system to the computing card would be off because the switch is open. However, it won't charge from the card, if the 12v adapter is plugged in (because of the protection diode). I will clarify this on the pcbs page but at the moment I don't have access to a PC. honestly... it would be best done as a diagram, even if it's hand-drawn and then photographed. i recall tracking down the LT4155 (and then the bq24193 as its replacement) precisely so that external components such as the SY6280's and extra protection diodes *wouldn't be needed*. grrr :) i _would_ suggest using the AXP209 or something else from X-Powers but i don't believe they can handle this much current (4 to 5 Amps) - certainly the AXP209 can only handle around 2A. *sigh*... l.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
I added the suggested schematic to http://rhombus-tech.net/ community_ideas/laptop_15in/pcbs/ . A document from TI about routing power with load switches suggested basically the same except they used their own ics of course.
got it. understand now. thx j
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance?
If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are.
By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :)
I believe the next generation of EOMA68 cards will use the Rockchip RK3288 SoC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip_RK3288 for specs on that.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance?
If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are.
By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :)
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And, Luke mentioned inquiries being made about using RISC-V in a 100% open core board. That's probably a more longterm slightly optimistic subject.
On 3/1/17, Adam Van Ymeren adam.vany@gmail.com wrote:
I believe the next generation of EOMA68 cards will use the Rockchip RK3288 SoC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip_RK3288 for specs on that.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance?
If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are.
By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :)
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On 03/01/2017 06:58 PM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
And, Luke mentioned inquiries being made about using RISC-V in a 100% open core board. That's probably a more longterm slightly optimistic
ah okay fair enough. I was just curious if he planned to reverse engineer ones with 8gb or more in the later future.
subject.
On 3/1/17, Adam Van Ymeren adam.vany@gmail.com wrote:
I believe the next generation of EOMA68 cards will use the Rockchip RK3288 SoC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip_RK3288 for specs on that.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance?
If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are.
By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :)
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On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 06:58 PM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
And, Luke mentioned inquiries being made about using RISC-V in a 100% open core board. That's probably a more longterm slightly optimistic
ah okay fair enough. I was just curious if he planned to reverse engineer ones with 8gb or more in the later future.
reverse-engineering i have come to the conclusion is a total - and criminal - waste of time and effort. by the time all features are 100% stable it's several YEARS down the line. look at how long ago the A64 was released, and the libdram code STILL HAS NOT BEEN REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
NO.
read this, zap:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/picking-a-processor
that should give you some idea of how insane pretty much every single fabless semiconductor company really is. they're just not paying attention: every single one of them makes at least one compromise, somewhere, and because it's an *integrated* SoC there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
so we need to be of the order of a MILLION units to be in a position to influence these people. and if you're going for a million units, you might as well get your own SoC custom-made.
anyone knows of an open silicon H.264 and MPEG design that is capable of up to 1080p60 video decode, do let me know.
l.
http://opencores.org/project,bluespec-h264,overview
found the h264.
https://opencores.org/project,video_systems,common
found a series of building blocks which look like they'll do the job for MPEG, H261, H263, H264 and more. VP8 and VP9 are available "on request" at zero licensing cost from google.
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 06:58 PM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
And, Luke mentioned inquiries being made about using RISC-V in a 100% open core board. That's probably a more longterm slightly optimistic
ah okay fair enough. I was just curious if he planned to reverse engineer ones with 8gb or more in the later future.
reverse-engineering i have come to the conclusion is a total - and criminal - waste of time and effort. by the time all features are 100% stable it's several YEARS down the line. look at how long ago the A64 was released, and the libdram code STILL HAS NOT BEEN REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
Well at least I know now.
But I do recall you were talking about other processors even after that.
I must have been mistaken
NO.
read this, zap:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/picking-a-processor
So Rockchip and A20 are the only ones you can do it too you think?
Ah okay. Well I hope something will change for you. though unlikely it may seem.
and even more than that, I hope Trisquel 8 will someday come out of alpha and support arm as a whole.
that should give you some idea of how insane pretty much every single fabless semiconductor company really is. they're just not paying attention: every single one of them makes at least one compromise, somewhere, and because it's an *integrated* SoC there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
That bad huh? I had no idea that it was that frustrating.
so we need to be of the order of a MILLION units to be in a position to influence these people. and if you're going for a million units, you might as well get your own SoC custom-made.
anyone knows of an open silicon H.264 and MPEG design that is capable of up to 1080p60 video decode, do let me know.
l.
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--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
On 03/02/2017 03:33 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
https://jxself.org/linux-libre/
I am wondering if it is possible to add that repository to a debian build.
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On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:37 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 03:33 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
as i've said - approximately five to eight times now - repeated both back in august, on the mailing list, and in the crowdfunding updates, repeatedly, and yet again, repeatedly, back only as far as ten days ago - nothing beyond 4.7rc4 works due to a mainline linux kernel bug that has not been fixed during a major reworking of various parts of the mainline sunxi.
please pay attention to the list messages before making me repeat myself AGAIN, distracting me from tasks that take up my time.
please do not just dive in without keeping up-to-date and expect me to repeatedly fill you in on missing information that's been repeated five to eight times.
l.
On 03/02/2017 03:42 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:37 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 03:33 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
as i've said - approximately five to eight times now - repeated both back in august, on the mailing list, and in the crowdfunding updates, repeatedly, and yet again, repeatedly, back only as far as ten days ago - nothing beyond 4.7rc4 works due to a mainline linux kernel bug that has not been fixed during a major reworking of various parts of the mainline sunxi.
please pay attention to the list messages before making me repeat myself AGAIN, distracting me from tasks that take up my time.
please do not just dive in without keeping up-to-date and expect me to repeatedly fill you in on missing information that's been repeated five to eight times.
I thought because it was linux libre, it would be different than the normal kernel. I guess 4.4 or 4.1 may work better then...
l.
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On 03/02/2017 03:42 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:37 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 03:33 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
as i've said - approximately five to eight times now - repeated both back in august, on the mailing list, and in the crowdfunding updates, repeatedly, and yet again, repeatedly, back only as far as ten days ago - nothing beyond 4.7rc4 works due to a mainline linux kernel bug that has not been fixed during a major reworking of various parts of the mainline sunxi.
please pay attention to the list messages before making me repeat myself AGAIN, distracting me from tasks that take up my time.
please do not just dive in without keeping up-to-date and expect me to repeatedly fill you in on missing information that's been repeated five to eight times.
I am beginning to suspect I have a weakness in that area. "Not Paying attention"
My bad again. I really failed in that respect.
By the way, I hope you are feeling better.
l.
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On 3/2/17, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 03:42 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:37 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 03:33 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:55 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
Wait its criminal?
as in it is a flagrant (colloquial "criminal") waste of time.
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
as i've said - approximately five to eight times now - repeated both back in august, on the mailing list, and in the crowdfunding updates, repeatedly, and yet again, repeatedly, back only as far as ten days ago - nothing beyond 4.7rc4 works due to a mainline linux kernel bug that has not been fixed during a major reworking of various parts of the mainline sunxi.
please pay attention to the list messages before making me repeat myself AGAIN, distracting me from tasks that take up my time.
please do not just dive in without keeping up-to-date and expect me to repeatedly fill you in on missing information that's been repeated five to eight times.
I am beginning to suspect I have a weakness in that area. "Not Paying attention"
My bad again. I really failed in that respect.
By the way, I hope you are feeling better.
l.
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@Zap, in this case verbosity helps greatly. If you (for all you honestly knew at the time) redundantly mentioned the purpose of the link was presenting jxself as an alternative.
In fact it would seem you were paying more attention than you (for all Luke honestly knew at the time) seemed to be.
There is a lot of weight on what we are doing here, if we can forgive each others tempers then we can forgive each others occasionally amiss thoughts. This is more important than even slight drama, and certainly TOO important for us to be letting each other feel down about our slight mistakes.
*Zap recieves a big 'ole hug*
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:59 PM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/17, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
My bad again. I really failed in that respect.
's'ok zap
By the way, I hope you are feeling better.
getting there
@Zap, in this case verbosity helps greatly. If you (for all you honestly knew at the time) redundantly mentioned the purpose of the link was presenting jxself as an alternative.
In fact it would seem you were paying more attention than you (for all Luke honestly knew at the time) seemed to be.
yeah yesterday wasn't a good day: i learned that the NAND ICs which are currently available are no longer compatible with the NAND BOOT ROM on the A20. the A20's basically running out of time and i will have to make a decision to put sub 1GB NAND ICs on-board to store the bootloader *only*, and ship with MicroSD cards with the OS on it instead.
the passthrough card i can't get it up and running in a straightforward fashion: it's going to take time.
the microdesktop is going to need a rework as the microsd power supply 3.3v line is back-feeding into VREFTTL of the A20 and destabilising the processor. i'll need to put in high-speed bi-directional level shifters. argh.
the rk3288 is almost up and running: i destroyed one processor and RAM with a short between the 2v and 1.5v supply, and the first board i had working will not talk to the SYR827 or anything else on the PMIC I2C Bus. i have three remaining boards spare which i am slowly in the process of double-checking the I2C bus first, before putting on the SoC and then the $40 worth of DDR3 RAM. each IC added is risky.
all this was yesterday.
so i am Not A Happy Bunny.
l.
On 03/02/2017 08:30 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:59 PM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/2/17, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
My bad again. I really failed in that respect.
's'ok zap
By the way, I hope you are feeling better.
getting there
@Zap, in this case verbosity helps greatly. If you (for all you honestly knew at the time) redundantly mentioned the purpose of the link was presenting jxself as an alternative.
In fact it would seem you were paying more attention than you (for all Luke honestly knew at the time) seemed to be.
yeah yesterday wasn't a good day: i learned that the NAND ICs which are currently available are no longer compatible with the NAND BOOT ROM on the A20. the A20's basically running out of time and i will have to make a decision to put sub 1GB NAND ICs on-board to store the bootloader *only*, and ship with MicroSD cards with the OS on it instead.
the passthrough card i can't get it up and running in a straightforward fashion: it's going to take time.
the microdesktop is going to need a rework as the microsd power supply 3.3v line is back-feeding into VREFTTL of the A20 and destabilising the processor. i'll need to put in high-speed bi-directional level shifters. argh.
the rk3288 is almost up and running: i destroyed one processor and RAM with a short between the 2v and 1.5v supply, and the first board i had working will not talk to the SYR827 or anything else on the PMIC I2C Bus. i have three remaining boards spare which i am slowly in the process of double-checking the I2C bus first, before putting on the SoC and then the $40 worth of DDR3 RAM. each IC added is risky.
all this was yesterday.
so i am Not A Happy Bunny.
I am sure you will figure out a way. I wish you well and hope you will find that one idea to fix your problems.
As for the ram I wanted, 4gb is a good amount, I needn't be greedy now. Besides, someday down the road later in the future, who knows what will happen...
For now though, don't be hard on yourself okay?
l.
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On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 2:36 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
On 03/02/2017 08:30 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
I am sure you will figure out a way. I wish you well and hope you will find that one idea to fix your problems.
As for the ram I wanted, 4gb is a good amount, I needn't be greedy now. Besides, someday down the road later in the future, who knows what will happen...
the A20 maxes out at 2GB RAM, but the boot ROM only recognises *older* (legacy) NAND ICs. the RK3288 maxes out at 4GB RAM and has a modern eMMC interface, it's a completely different story.
For now though, don't be hard on yourself okay?
thx zap - you too jah.
l.
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:37 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
oh okay, would it support linux libre 4.9 from jxself's website by the way?
as i've said - approximately five to eight times now - repeated both back in august, on the mailing list, and in the crowdfunding updates, repeatedly, and yet again, repeatedly, back only as far as ten days ago - nothing beyond 4.7rc4 works due to a mainline linux kernel bug that has not been fixed during a major reworking of various parts of the mainline sunxi.
As a matter of fact, there are dozens of other A20 based boards and they all work with the current mainline kernel. Many people are using them, so the test coverage is pretty decent.
I would not rule out some sort of defect in your hardware. For example, it has been recently discovered that some boards have wrong capacitors (10uF instead of 4.7uF) and this causes reliability problems:
https://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2017-March/282796.html
And this was just a single example. There are tons of possible reasons why the hardware may not work correctly. And there will be no progress until somebody gets his hands dirty and finds the root cause.
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote: reverse-engineering i have come to the conclusion is a total - and criminal - waste of time and effort. by the time all features are 100% stable it's several YEARS down the line. look at how long ago the A64 was released, and the libdram code STILL HAS NOT BEEN REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
You are just very poorly informed about the status of A64 support. And it's quite funny that there are people who believe you rather than trying to get this information first hand.
On Thursday 2. March 2017 22.20.27 Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote: reverse-engineering i have come to the conclusion is a total - and
criminal - waste of time and effort. by the time all features are 100% stable it's several YEARS down the line. look at how long ago the A64 was released, and the libdram code STILL HAS NOT BEEN REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
You are just very poorly informed about the status of A64 support. And it's quite funny that there are people who believe you rather than trying to get this information first hand.
Well, I posted the results of some enquiries a few weeks ago in the context of the Olimex laptop. Everything sounded very promising until this appeared:
"For the moment the only working Linux Kernel which supports all A64 features is the Allwinner Android Kernel. This Kernel is full of binary blobs, but the only one which could be used for demo. Beside the binary blobs many other things are broken, like the power management, different drivers like the LCD backlight PWM, wake up from suspend, eDP converter is not set properly and works just in 15 bit color mode etc etc. We have the hardware for 50 laptops ready (developer edition), but we do not want to ship before we take care for the software. At other hand we do not want to ship TERES I with Android or RemixOS also which are complete with binary blobs and will never be Open Source."
Source: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/fosdem-and-teres-i-update/
Some of that is specific to their laptop, but some of it seems relevant to any A64 device. Maybe you could reconcile what the Olimex people are saying with what you are claiming.
If you have any definitive information to the contrary, particularly about the boot0 code that Luke appears to be referring to, please post links to it. The linux-sunxi wiki was very vague on such matters last time I checked. And yes, I have seen the "mainlining effort" page:
https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort#Status_Matrix
Paul
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Thursday 2. March 2017 22.20.27 Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:49 AM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote: reverse-engineering i have come to the conclusion is a total - and
criminal - waste of time and effort. by the time all features are 100% stable it's several YEARS down the line. look at how long ago the A64 was released, and the libdram code STILL HAS NOT BEEN REVERSE-ENGINEERED. it's 200 lines of code for fuck's sake.
You are just very poorly informed about the status of A64 support. And it's quite funny that there are people who believe you rather than trying to get this information first hand.
Well, I posted the results of some enquiries a few weeks ago in the context of the Olimex laptop. Everything sounded very promising until this appeared:
"For the moment the only working Linux Kernel which supports all A64 features is the Allwinner Android Kernel. This Kernel is full of binary blobs, but the only one which could be used for demo. Beside the binary blobs many other things are broken, like the power management, different drivers like the LCD backlight PWM, wake up from suspend, eDP converter is not set properly and works just in 15 bit color mode etc etc. We have the hardware for 50 laptops ready (developer edition), but we do not want to ship before we take care for the software. At other hand we do not want to ship TERES I with Android or RemixOS also which are complete with binary blobs and will never be Open Source."
Source: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/fosdem-and-teres-i-update/
Some of that is specific to their laptop, but some of it seems relevant to any A64 device. Maybe you could reconcile what the Olimex people are saying with what you are claiming.
I guess, the emphasis was on *all* A64 features. And the mainline kernel clearly does not support *all* A64 features yet.
Also Olimex people are always saying that they don't do software and don't have software expertise in-house. The are not the best people to ask for this information.
If you have any definitive information to the contrary, particularly about the boot0 code that Luke appears to be referring to, please post links to it.
Regarding Luke's claim stated in bold letters, here is the commit in the mainline U-Boot, which has added the A64 DRAM controller support:
http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bc464be1fc559a3f6dc13342972...
But the reverse engineered A64 DRAM controller support code existed in experimental git branches many months before it finally landed upstream and anyone could try it.
The linux-sunxi wiki was very vague on such matters last time I checked. And yes, I have seen the "mainlining effort" page:
https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort#Status_Matrix
It's very good that you have found this page. You can clearly see many links to the work-in progress branches that are used for developing various drivers and test them.
If you don't understand something, you can always join the #linux-sunxi irc channel on freenode and ask around.
On Friday 3. March 2017 01.47.49 Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Source: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/fosdem-and-teres-i-update/
Some of that is specific to their laptop, but some of it seems relevant to any A64 device. Maybe you could reconcile what the Olimex people are saying with what you are claiming.
I guess, the emphasis was on *all* A64 features. And the mainline kernel clearly does not support *all* A64 features yet.
Sure, it wasn't good enough for a demonstration. But that doesn't need *all* features, either. Yes, I agree that it's not their focus and that they just want to demonstrate the hardware.
As people have noted before, it isn't always that helpful if such a hardware- only focus continues through to retail because people can end up with hardware that they cannot support themselves, with software that violates the licensing terms.
Also Olimex people are always saying that they don't do software and don't have software expertise in-house. The are not the best people to ask for this information.
Well, there was someone who appeared to be "in the know" replying to questions on their blog, so I was rather going off what they were saying. I don't expect the Olimex people to know the details, but I do expect them to know whether they can ship compliant software or not.
If you have any definitive information to the contrary, particularly about the boot0 code that Luke appears to be referring to, please post links to it.
Regarding Luke's claim stated in bold letters, here is the commit in the mainline U-Boot, which has added the A64 DRAM controller support:
http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bc464be1fc559a3f6dc133429 7245d5b27b9b57
Thank you for posting this reference.
But the reverse engineered A64 DRAM controller support code existed in experimental git branches many months before it finally landed upstream and anyone could try it.
I did see this on the A64 page:
"U-Boot 2017.03-rc1 saw the addition of the required DRAM init code, so SPL support is now enabled. However this version lacks support for loading the ATF, which limits the usability."
https://linux-sunxi.org/A64#Mainline_U-Boot
It was found under the empty boot0 section, so I guess one is supposed to read the page like a switch statement in the C programming language or something.
The linux-sunxi wiki was very vague on such matters last time I checked. And yes, I have seen the "mainlining effort" page:
https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort#Status_Matrix
It's very good that you have found this page. You can clearly see many links to the work-in progress branches that are used for developing various drivers and test them.
If you don't understand something, you can always join the #linux-sunxi irc channel on freenode and ask around.
Well, I don't track Allwinner SoC support at all, really, but I thought that since we had the opportunity to get to the bottom of this matter, it might be best to ask someone who clearly has information about it. Publishing such information in obvious places is more helpful than having people "ask around", though, because it saves everyone time and reduces their confusion.
To that end, I added the following page to the Rhombus Tech wiki so that people have the ability to inform themselves more conveniently on the topic:
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a64/
Naturally, corrections and improvements are welcome.
Paul
I know, I was talking more long term. but yes that is a good thing too. until it goes beyond. heh.
any idea when the next generation ones will be announced or available for purchase? ;)
On 03/01/2017 06:19 PM, Adam Van Ymeren wrote:
I believe the next generation of EOMA68 cards will use the Rockchip RK3288 SoC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip_RK3288 for specs on that.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, zap <zapper@openmailbox.org mailto:zapper@openmailbox.org> wrote:
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance? If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are. By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :) _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook <http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook> Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk <mailto:arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk>
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Its a huge performance boost compared to the a20. I remember the gpd handheld with the same soc can run emulators with 3d accel up to approx ps2 levels of graphic requirements and even run windows 10 relatively smoothly. The CHIP community has managed to make ps1 games to run only with software acceleration from the Neon simd extensions( on a different Allwinner soc). The question is, how many of the features the soc has will work out of the box with a vanilla kernel. On Mar 2, 2017 1:19 AM, "Adam Van Ymeren" adam.vany@gmail.com wrote:
I believe the next generation of EOMA68 cards will use the Rockchip RK3288 SoC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip_RK3288 for specs on that.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:48 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious, which processors are you considering by chance?
If no one can tell me that's fine, but I am just curious how much ram the highest one is as a limit/whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit and how late in the future such things are.
By the way, whenever I get around to it, I intend to, buy the libre laptop, if systemd is really problem, I don't care if you want to remove it as long as you do it well. :)
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julius it occurred to me from your comments that you may have been reviewing the wrong PCB3 schematic, as the latest revision PCB3 includes a 4A buck-boost converter that ups the 3.8-4.2v battery output to 5.0V. could you confirm that you've been reviewing the schematics that include a TPS63020, the BQ24193, and the BQ27542?
l. .
Yes, I have been reviewing the correct schematics. That is why I corrected the connector specification for PCB3.
On Feb 19, 2017, 22:54, at 22:54, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
julius it occurred to me from your comments that you may have been reviewing the wrong PCB3 schematic, as the latest revision PCB3 includes a 4A buck-boost converter that ups the 3.8-4.2v battery output to 5.0V. could you confirm that you've been reviewing the schematics that include a TPS63020, the BQ24193, and the BQ27542?
l. .
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On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:08 AM, Internet internet@devpi.de wrote:
Yes, I have been reviewing the correct schematics. That is why I corrected the connector specification for PCB3.
ah great, i just wasn't sure which ones i'd uploaded.
l.
ok soooo on laptop_15in_PCB1_rev2_2.pdf quadrant 2D page 1 you have the STM32F072 board connector (to PCB2) and quadrant D1 you have the power connector (to PCB3). that connector's fairly straightforward, except the names should be VCC-5V0 not SYS-V. or, more to the point: SYS-V on laptop_15in_PCB1_rev2_2 *is* VCC-5V0.
now let's look at laptop_15in_PCB2_3.pdf. J6 is where things aren't properly synchronised as i hadn't completed the redesign. here - pin 10 - *really is* SYS-V from PCB2's J4 - because it's the "incoming battery voltage" which powers the STM32F072 board's 3.3v regulator, that power *must* remain permanently on, as the STM32F072 needs to be permanently powered (so that it can monitor battery status interrupts etc.) it also supplies (as 3.3v) the VREFTTL for PCB3 for any digital GPIO...
*sigh* which is why i had the level converter on-board PCB3 because all the STM32F072's GPIO is @ 3.3v, whilst the TI ICs are @ 1.8v.
it must also stay in control of all the power for the main laptop - that's why 5V_EN is connected to PCB3's J4, and you can see from PCB2's J6 i haven't yet updated the names of the pins.
yes the battery-sense thing is weird: you musn't connect the battery directly to GND, you have to do that via a rather heavy-duty very accurate 0.01R resistor, use differential-pairs to wire up the current-sensing, make it very very pretty and completely symmetrical, so that there's no chance of EM interference even the slightest little bit with that hyper-sensitive voltage reading (microvolts) going into the battery-sense IC.
all not yet completed etc. etc.
l.
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