the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august. please do help push that out to as many people as you can, blog about it, etc. we have thinkpenguin writing about it, liliputing is doing an article, i'll create a slashdot article, i'll be in touch with wired later today and so on.
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net
wrote:
Congrats on "getting there" ;) Sent to both my parents and both my friends. LOL @ no social life... but hey maybe one of them will throw ya $5. You never know...
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 7:44 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
Congrats on "getting there" ;) Sent to both my parents and both my friends. LOL @ no social life... but hey maybe one of them will throw ya $5. You never know...
well if they forward it to their friends as well that's even better.
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august.
Congrats!
If I read this correctly, the computer card can be used itself "as is" with the micro-hdmi + micro-usb? Or does on need to buy the micro-desktop enclosure to be able to do anything useful?
Thanks for all your hard work!
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Stephen Paul Weber singpolyma@singpolyma.net wrote:
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august.
Congrats!
thanks stephen
If I read this correctly, the computer card can be used itself "as is" with the micro-hdmi + micro-usb?
that's correct. i'll be putting up a USB-OTG powered hub later in the campaign once i've checked the pricing, there's a kernel patch to enable the two-way power that's needed, i found it about 6 months ago. a standard hub is *not* going to work because you need to provide power *to* the CPU card *and* power the keyboard, mouse, etc. that's plugged into the hub.
... make sense?
Or does on need to buy the micro-desktop enclosure to be able to do anything useful?
honestly you'll need to get something, at least.
Thanks for all your hard work!
no problem :)
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
https://slashdot.org/submission/6035171/eoma68-modular-eco-computing-project...
here's the submission for slashdot, can i possibly ask people to click on the "+" button at the top? this will increase its likelihood of being on the front page. thanks!
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
http://retro-freedom.nz/blog/2016/06/30/eoma68-my-dream-machine/
yay, this is really nice to see
yaaa magiiiic :) remember to "+" the slashdot submission, we've reached 1% already, we need to hit that $150k goal for everyone to be able to receive their rewards, so it's in your interests to make it happen! https://slashdot.org/submission/6035171/eoma68-modular-eco-computing-project...
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Alexander .S.T. Ross maillist_arm-netbook@aross.me wrote:
ive put in my pre-order :)
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Some questions coming up at https://www.reddit.com/r/freesoftware/comments/4qhm1y/earthfriendly_eoma68_c... mostly about the freedom status because people don't trust AllWinner.
thanks! --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Stephen Paul Weber singpolyma@singpolyma.net wrote:
Some questions coming up at https://www.reddit.com/r/freesoftware/comments/4qhm1y/earthfriendly_eoma68_c... mostly about the freedom status because people don't trust AllWinner.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wednesday 29. June 2016 20.35.04 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august. please do help push that out to as many people as you can, blog about it, etc. we have thinkpenguin writing about it, liliputing is doing an article, i'll create a slashdot article, i'll be in touch with wired later today and so on.
Congratulations on getting this far!
I like the fact that the computer cards are providing 2GB RAM and are thus competitive with various other solutions...
https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware
(I would add the EOMA68-A20 card to the list on that page, in combination with the Micro-Desktop, but I guess the SATA/Ethernet requirement rules it out for the time being: it's a list related to FreedomBox, after all. Maybe a future device would manage to get onto such a list, but such lists are obviously not the final word on whether an EOMA68-based solution would be usable for that particular application.)
I'm inclined to pledge for the Micro-Desktop and EOMA68-A20, but I'd be very interested in getting other cards as well, if the ones that were planned (jz4775, IC1T) made it onto the bill. The possibility of experimenting with different architectures, having a common platform in which to do it, is a considerable strength of the EOMA68 concept.
Good luck with reaching the target!
Paul
P.S. Links for newer readers:
http://rhombus-tech.net/ingenic/jz4775/ http://rhombus-tech.net/icubecorp/IC1T/
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 29. June 2016 20.35.04 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august. please do help push that out to as many people as you can, blog about it, etc. we have thinkpenguin writing about it, liliputing is doing an article, i'll create a slashdot article, i'll be in touch with wired later today and so on.
Congratulations on getting this far!
thanks paul
I like the fact that the computer cards are providing 2GB RAM and are thus competitive with various other solutions...
https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware
(I would add the EOMA68-A20 card to the list on that page, in combination with the Micro-Desktop, but I guess the SATA/Ethernet requirement rules it out for the time being: it's a list related to FreedomBox, after all. Maybe a future device would manage to get onto such a list, but such lists are obviously not the final word on whether an EOMA68-based solution would be usable for that particular application.)
it's a pity that they classify USB-ETH as "toys" directly on that list. at some point i'll see a gigabit router done, it'll need to use MII bit-banging to manage the IC, and one of the ports will need to be connected via USB-ETH to the EOMA68 card, but it'll do the job.
I'm inclined to pledge for the Micro-Desktop and EOMA68-A20, but I'd be very interested in getting other cards as well, if the ones that were planned (jz4775, IC1T) made it onto the bill. The possibility of experimenting with different architectures, having a common platform in which to do it, is a considerable strength of the EOMA68 concept.
the ic1t i haven't heard back from them in a while, but the jz4775 looks achievable - i just have to find time to sort out the boot process.
Good luck with reaching the target!
Paul
P.S. Links for newer readers:
http://rhombus-tech.net/ingenic/jz4775/ http://rhombus-tech.net/icubecorp/IC1T/
appreciated. btw there's a discussion going on on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/freesoftware/comments/4qhm1y/earthfriendly_eoma68_c...
On Thursday 30. June 2016 17.25.34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the ic1t i haven't heard back from them in a while, but the jz4775 looks achievable - i just have to find time to sort out the boot process.
Will it be possible to add things to a pledge/order if those things (like the jz4775 card) get offered later, or does it become a separate pledge/order? I'm sure this is an obvious question, but Crowd Supply doesn't seem to answer it in an obvious place.
Paul
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 5:09 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Thursday 30. June 2016 17.25.34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the ic1t i haven't heard back from them in a while, but the jz4775 looks achievable - i just have to find time to sort out the boot process.
Will it be possible to add things to a pledge/order if those things (like the jz4775 card) get offered later, or does it become a separate pledge/order? I'm sure this is an obvious question, but Crowd Supply doesn't seem to answer it in an obvious place.
it'll be a separate pledge... but i only have 57 days to do the double-checking of the CPU Card! i haven't stopped answering questions since we hit "launch" yesterday... :)
l.
On Thursday 30. June 2016 18.19.34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
it'll be a separate pledge... but i only have 57 days to do the double-checking of the CPU Card! i haven't stopped answering questions since we hit "launch" yesterday... :)
Sure, but don't forget to update the rhombus-tech.net front page to indicate that the campaign is actually running now! :-)
Otherwise, people still think it is a "pipedream"... :-/
http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2016-07-01
Paul
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Thursday 30. June 2016 18.19.34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
it'll be a separate pledge... but i only have 57 days to do the double-checking of the CPU Card! i haven't stopped answering questions since we hit "launch" yesterday... :)
Sure, but don't forget to update the rhombus-tech.net front page to indicate that the campaign is actually running now! :-)
yep definite DOH :)
Otherwise, people still think it is a "pipedream"... :-/
http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2016-07-01
Paul
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Hi all,
2016-06-30 16:25 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 29. June 2016 20.35.04 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august. please do help push that out to as many people as you can, blog about it, etc. we have thinkpenguin writing about it, liliputing is doing an article, i'll create a slashdot article, i'll be in touch with wired later today and so on.
Congratulations on getting this far!
+1! Congrats, Luke!
I'm inclined to pledge for the Micro-Desktop and EOMA68-A20, but I'd be very interested in getting other cards as well, if the ones that were planned (jz4775, IC1T) made it onto the bill. The possibility of experimenting with different architectures, having a common platform in which to do it, is a considerable strength of the EOMA68 concept.
the ic1t i haven't heard back from them in a while, but the jz4775 looks achievable - i just have to find time to sort out the boot process.
(just IMHO)
MIPS it's a more realistic possibility, but I am not sure if IC1T is a very good option, if it has no foothold in the market yet, has zero distributions supporting it, and it doesn't offer clear advantages in other areas (??). I wouldn't mind at all to get one of those, but I am not sure if many people will follow... so would be bad in terms of effectiveness.
If it's for something more experimental like perhaps the IC1T would be, I'd consider the possibility of exploring RISC-V [1] based designs like the recently launched SiFive ones [2].
The development is more in-line with FOSS (even if some aspects are not 100% perfect), hopefully there will be no need for blobs or NDAs or problems for booting. And with 64-bits, it is well prepared to be usable for several decades to come [3].
[2] https://www.sifive.com/products/freedom/
[3] 32-bits is problematic even nowadays, e.g. Debian having problems to build some of the biggest applications due to lack of memory.
Cheers.
On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:02 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
2016-06-30 16:25 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 29. June 2016 20.35.04 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
the page is now live, and runs till the 26th august. please do help push that out to as many people as you can, blog about it, etc. we have thinkpenguin writing about it, liliputing is doing an article, i'll create a slashdot article, i'll be in touch with wired later today and so on.
Congratulations on getting this far!
+1! Congrats, Luke!
thanks manuel. we're at 54% of the total MOQ numbers needed for the Computer Card production run, which is great.
MIPS it's a more realistic possibility, but I am not sure if IC1T is a very good option, if it has no foothold in the market yet, has zero distributions supporting it, and it doesn't offer clear advantages in other areas (??). I wouldn't mind at all to get one of those, but I am not sure if many people will follow... so would be bad in terms of effectiveness.
if it can't have debian... yeah. as in, because the open64.net compiler "isn't called gcc", it's almost impossible to *do* a debian port.
If it's for something more experimental like perhaps the IC1T would be, I'd consider the possibility of exploring RISC-V [1] based designs like the recently launched SiFive ones [2].
The development is more in-line with FOSS (even if some aspects are not 100% perfect), hopefully there will be no need for blobs or NDAs or problems for booting. And with 64-bits, it is well prepared to be usable for several decades to come [3].
ok, what goes into a successful SoC? let's go through ths list:
* Video output: HDMI, LCD (RGB/TTL/LVDS/MIPI/eDP), maybe TV (Composite) * Memory: DDR2 through to DDR4 and not forgetting LPDDR2/3 *and* DDR3L... * Storage (SATA, SD/MMC, eMMC, NAND) * Network (Ethernet) * USB (1.0 through 3.1) multiple thereof including USB-OTG * GPIO (plain GPIO) and also EINT-capable GPIO * Audio (I2S AC97 as well as Analog - Headphones, Mic etc.) * PCIe * General-purpose sensors/peripherals (I2C, UART, SPI up to 4 lane)
then also for a successful mass-market SoC you also need:
* 3D Graphics GPU * 2D Graphics GPU * Video Decode / Encode * Crypto Co-processor (which saves power)
and finally - last *AND LEAST*:
* A general-purpose processor.
yes really, with all that huge amount of extra stuff above, the processor *really is* last and least! :) it's also, in the RISC world, one of the smallest sections of the SoC, taking up something like ONE PERCENT in the corner. 1st level cache takes up a whopping 15-20%. The "Memory Bus" down the middle of the processor is a whopping 15% the width of the entire die, with branches off left and right to different peripherals (including the processor).
now for licensing costs of all those hard macros, it works out something like: $350,000 for DDR memory bus (32-bit-wide data), $50k for SATA, $50k for each USB3, $50k for GPIO/Audio/I2C/UART etc, $50k for Ethernet.... pretty soon you are at $USD 3 million for licensing of all the hard macros needed to make a successful SoC.
... but if you *don't do* that licensing, and instead try to replicate them all, you are immediately placing the entire project at risk. bear in mind that TSMC won't talk to you if you make a failed chip (first time) because you're wasting their time. and it costs $USD 2 *MILLION* for the production masks (the lithographic masks like an OHP plastic sheet)
... so against that background can you see that to focus on the *actual* processor's *instruction set* - to make a totally new architecture - is pretty much irrelevant as far as making an *actual processor* is concerned?
and then once that's done you *still* need to port OSes to it!
my feeling is, we would be much better off talking to Loongson and seeing if they'd be up for a licensing deal of their MIPS64 architecture. apart from anything the Loongson 3G and above have emulation in hardware of the top 200 x86 instructions which makes it possible for them to accelerate non-native QEMU up to 70% of the native MIPS64 processor's clock rate. which is pretty awesome.
l.
2016-07-18 01:38 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
MIPS it's a more realistic possibility, but I am not sure if IC1T is a very good option, if it has no foothold in the market yet, has zero distributions supporting it, and it doesn't offer clear advantages in other areas (??). I wouldn't mind at all to get one of those, but I am not sure if many people will follow... so would be bad in terms of effectiveness.
if it can't have debian... yeah. as in, because the open64.net compiler "isn't called gcc", it's almost impossible to *do* a debian port.
As you probably know, but others perhaps not, it's not just a matter of the compiler, but also to port many many software packages and submitting patches upstream and take care of this for years.
For ARM, MIPS, SPARC, PowerPC and the rest of non-Intel-but-well-known it's maybe not 100% perfect, but there are Debian (or other distros/OSs) ports working almost as well as the best ones. But I suppose that for IC1T it's not the case at all, so it would need a lot of effort also in the software front, for years.
If it's for something more experimental like perhaps the IC1T would be, I'd consider the possibility of exploring RISC-V [1] based designs like the recently launched SiFive ones [2].
The development is more in-line with FOSS (even if some aspects are not 100% perfect), hopefully there will be no need for blobs or NDAs or problems for booting. And with 64-bits, it is well prepared to be usable for several decades to come [3].
ok, what goes into a successful SoC? let's go through ths list: [...]
... but if you *don't do* that licensing, and instead try to replicate them all, you are immediately placing the entire project at risk. bear in mind that TSMC won't talk to you if you make a failed chip (first time) because you're wasting their time. and it costs $USD 2 *MILLION* for the production masks (the lithographic masks like an OHP plastic sheet)
I don't really have any idea about the fabrication processes, but according to this:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-u500-platform-guide/
"The resulting customized U500 SoC is optimized for manufacture in a TSMC 28nm metal-gate process, and delivered as packaged tested parts by SiFive."
and contains most of the technologies that you mention, except video, but maybe the custom accelerators can substitute traditional GPUs.
I am not sure if all of this is freely licensed, or how it works.
With lowrisc cores, if they become available in the next few months, they should be freely licensed.
... so against that background can you see that to focus on the *actual* processor's *instruction set* - to make a totally new architecture - is pretty much irrelevant as far as making an *actual processor* is concerned?
and then once that's done you *still* need to port OSes to it!
Yeah, I agree. I was only saying that if one's going to go out of her/his way and consider IC1T for a future option, RISC-V can be a more interesting and future-proof alternative *than IC1T* (not better than ARM or MIPS at the moment).
Also, that I'd consider to do this only a few years down the line, not now -- and focusing only in the A20 at the moment.
my feeling is, we would be much better off talking to Loongson and seeing if they'd be up for a licensing deal of their MIPS64 architecture. apart from anything the Loongson 3G and above have emulation in hardware of the top 200 x86 instructions which makes it possible for them to accelerate non-native QEMU up to 70% of the native MIPS64 processor's clock rate. which is pretty awesome.
Yeah, Loongson would be also good, although I am not sure if they will keep it active or if they'll abandon it in favour of others.
Cheers.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
2016-07-18 01:38 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
MIPS it's a more realistic possibility, but I am not sure if IC1T is a very good option, if it has no foothold in the market yet, has zero distributions supporting it, and it doesn't offer clear advantages in other areas (??). I wouldn't mind at all to get one of those, but I am not sure if many people will follow... so would be bad in terms of effectiveness.
if it can't have debian... yeah. as in, because the open64.net compiler "isn't called gcc", it's almost impossible to *do* a debian port.
As you probably know, but others perhaps not, it's not just a matter of the compiler, but also to port many many software packages and submitting patches upstream and take care of this for years.
For ARM, MIPS, SPARC, PowerPC and the rest of non-Intel-but-well-known it's maybe not 100% perfect, but there are Debian (or other distros/OSs) ports working almost as well as the best ones. But I suppose that for IC1T it's not the case at all, so it would need a lot of effort also in the software front, for years.
yeahyeah.... it's too much.
... but if you *don't do* that licensing, and instead try to replicate them all, you are immediately placing the entire project at risk. bear in mind that TSMC won't talk to you if you make a failed chip (first time) because you're wasting their time. and it costs $USD 2 *MILLION* for the production masks (the lithographic masks like an OHP plastic sheet)
I don't really have any idea about the fabrication processes, but according to this:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-u500-platform-guide/
"The resulting customized U500 SoC is optimized for manufacture in a TSMC 28nm metal-gate process, and delivered as packaged tested parts by SiFive."
and contains most of the technologies that you mention, except video, but maybe the custom accelerators can substitute traditional GPUs.
yeah the "except video" means it can't be used (as a SoC). connecting a GPU via PCIe.... mmm... you're at what... between 20 to 1000 watts there, depending on the GPU?
and up to *FOUR* DDR3/4 lanes? WOW. 128-bit-wide memory access. yowser. that's going to be something like 12-20 watts just on memory access.
Yeah, I agree. I was only saying that if one's going to go out of her/his way and consider IC1T for a future option, RISC-V can be a more interesting and future-proof alternative *than IC1T* (not better than ARM or MIPS at the moment).
... we still have to have the OS support. so we still need to wait for debian, arch and fedora to catch up.
Also, that I'd consider to do this only a few years down the line, not now -- and focusing only in the A20 at the moment.
... and other low-power SoCs.
Yeah, Loongson would be also good, although I am not sure if they will keep it active or if they'll abandon it in favour of others.
well it's the one that the chinese government is pushing for their independent supercomputer - intel lost out there thanks to the NSA, congratulations U.S. Government you just f*****d your own economy well done!
l.
Hi,
2016-07-18 15:34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
2016-07-18 01:38 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
... but if you *don't do* that licensing, and instead try to replicate them all, you are immediately placing the entire project at risk. bear in mind that TSMC won't talk to you if you make a failed chip (first time) because you're wasting their time. and it costs $USD 2 *MILLION* for the production masks (the lithographic masks like an OHP plastic sheet)
I don't really have any idea about the fabrication processes, but according to this:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-u500-platform-guide/
"The resulting customized U500 SoC is optimized for manufacture in a TSMC 28nm metal-gate process, and delivered as packaged tested parts by SiFive."
and contains most of the technologies that you mention, except video, but maybe the custom accelerators can substitute traditional GPUs.
yeah the "except video" means it can't be used (as a SoC). connecting a GPU via PCIe.... mmm... you're at what... between 20 to 1000 watts there, depending on the GPU?
and up to *FOUR* DDR3/4 lanes? WOW. 128-bit-wide memory access. yowser. that's going to be something like 12-20 watts just on memory access.
The 32 bit version is more power-restrained, perhaps:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-e300-platform-guide/
(but I don't think that 32-bits of a new architecture it's very interesting / future-proof)
I suppose that using custom co-processors/accelerators is an alternative possibility for video/display, but probably not easy. Some uses of the SoC (e.g. micro-servers) probably don't care anyway, but I understand that it's part of the EOMA68 standard.
Other than that, I hoped that by providing the links would lead to some quick evaluation of the platform just announced, but if they're not useful nevermind, sorry for the noise.
Yeah, I agree. I was only saying that if one's going to go out of her/his way and consider IC1T for a future option, RISC-V can be a more interesting and future-proof alternative *than IC1T* (not better than ARM or MIPS at the moment).
... we still have to have the OS support. so we still need to wait for debian, arch and fedora to catch up.
I'm quite sure that they'll come sooner than IC1T, though ;-)
The next FreeBSD release will come with support for RISC-V.
Yeah, Loongson would be also good, although I am not sure if they will keep it active or if they'll abandon it in favour of others.
well it's the one that the chinese government is pushing for their independent supercomputer - intel lost out there thanks to the NSA, congratulations U.S. Government you just f*****d your own economy well done!
Indian research agencies / government are investing heavily in RISC-V, it seems.
I wouldn't be surprised if it picks-up pace also in other places like China. And in general, RISC-V is not that different from MIPS / Loongson, after all.
Cheers.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
2016-07-18 15:34 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
2016-07-18 01:38 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
... but if you *don't do* that licensing, and instead try to replicate them all, you are immediately placing the entire project at risk. bear in mind that TSMC won't talk to you if you make a failed chip (first time) because you're wasting their time. and it costs $USD 2 *MILLION* for the production masks (the lithographic masks like an OHP plastic sheet)
I don't really have any idea about the fabrication processes, but according to this:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-u500-platform-guide/
"The resulting customized U500 SoC is optimized for manufacture in a TSMC 28nm metal-gate process, and delivered as packaged tested parts by SiFive."
and contains most of the technologies that you mention, except video, but maybe the custom accelerators can substitute traditional GPUs.
yeah the "except video" means it can't be used (as a SoC). connecting a GPU via PCIe.... mmm... you're at what... between 20 to 1000 watts there, depending on the GPU?
and up to *FOUR* DDR3/4 lanes? WOW. 128-bit-wide memory access. yowser. that's going to be something like 12-20 watts just on memory access.
The 32 bit version is more power-restrained, perhaps:
https://dev.sifive.com/documentation/freedom-e300-platform-guide/
(but I don't think that 32-bits of a new architecture it's very interesting / future-proof)
correct. and it's targetted at 180nm so will be maaax ooooof.... 72mhz, or 120 mhz, thereabouts. it'll be very low power, and pretty low-cost ($2 or so). it's equivalent to the STM32F and the ATSAM range in other words.
I suppose that using custom co-processors/accelerators is an alternative possibility for video/display, but probably not easy. Some uses of the SoC (e.g. micro-servers) probably don't care anyway,
yeah they wouldn't. that U500 would actually make a great EOMA200 processor.
but I understand that it's part of the EOMA68 standard.
it's not that, it's that the power requirements to run a separate video IC are just as heavy if not heavier than the actual processor itself. even just running the PCIe lanes between the video and main processor - driving the voltages up and down - can take up a significant proportion of the EOMA68 power budget.
Other than that, I hoped that by providing the links would lead to some quick evaluation of the platform just announced, but if they're not useful nevermind, sorry for the noise.
no it's all good
Yeah, I agree. I was only saying that if one's going to go out of
her/his way and consider IC1T for a future option, RISC-V can be a more interesting and future-proof alternative *than IC1T* (not better than ARM or MIPS at the moment).
... we still have to have the OS support. so we still need to wait for debian, arch and fedora to catch up.
I'm quite sure that they'll come sooner than IC1T, though ;-)
sadly, yeah. i really like the ICubeCorp design approach.
The next FreeBSD release will come with support for RISC-V.
oo interesting
Yeah, Loongson would be also good, although I am not sure if they will keep it active or if they'll abandon it in favour of others.
well it's the one that the chinese government is pushing for their independent supercomputer - intel lost out there thanks to the NSA, congratulations U.S. Government you just f*****d your own economy well done!
Indian research agencies / government are investing heavily in RISC-V, it seems.
... because they're (rightly as it turns out!) paranoid about the NSA, but also paranoid about China. and russia. and everybody else.
no that's great to hear because it means they get their sovereignty back. YAY!
l.
2016-07-18 20:57 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
I suppose that using custom co-processors/accelerators is an alternative possibility for video/display, but probably not easy. Some uses of the SoC (e.g. micro-servers) probably don't care anyway,
yeah they wouldn't. that U500 would actually make a great EOMA200 processor.
but I understand that it's part of the EOMA68 standard.
it's not that, it's that the power requirements to run a separate video IC are just as heavy if not heavier than the actual processor itself. even just running the PCIe lanes between the video and main processor - driving the voltages up and down - can take up a significant proportion of the EOMA68 power budget.
Yeah, got that.
What I meant is that even if many people who would use it as a micro-server wouldn't be worried about the lack of video acceleration, it always was (AFAIK) a hard requirement for the EOMA68 standard itself -- being able to render video at FullHD or similar.
So it is not an option to ship without GPU if one wants to meet the requirements of the EOMA68 as defined now.
Cheers.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo manuel.montezelo@gmail.com wrote:
2016-07-18 20:57 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
I suppose that using custom co-processors/accelerators is an alternative possibility for video/display, but probably not easy. Some uses of the SoC (e.g. micro-servers) probably don't care anyway,
yeah they wouldn't. that U500 would actually make a great EOMA200 processor.
but I understand that it's part of the EOMA68 standard.
it's not that, it's that the power requirements to run a separate video IC are just as heavy if not heavier than the actual processor itself. even just running the PCIe lanes between the video and main processor - driving the voltages up and down - can take up a significant proportion of the EOMA68 power budget.
Yeah, got that.
What I meant is that even if many people who would use it as a micro-server wouldn't be worried about the lack of video acceleration, it always was (AFAIK) a hard requirement for the EOMA68 standard itself -- being able to render video at FullHD or similar.
nono, not at all, that's a misunderstanding: the actual requirement is about the maximum resolution that the LCD interface has to be driven at (1366x768 for type II 5mm cards, 1920x1080 for type I 3.3mm cards).
an FPGA-based card using a zynq 7030 could do 18-bit or just 15-bit RGB/TTL and not have any kind of acceleration at all.
there's even an ATSAM4 that operates at only 200 mhz which has an RGB/TTL interface: that would qualify... it's just that pricing is completely mad (somewhere around $9!) so it's not financially viable or justifiable.
the IC1t was *barely* able to drive 1024x768 16bpp @ 50hz due to the internal memory bandwidth: amazingly they used the OpenCores LCD/VGA library but they didn't update its memory bandwidth. they were only expecting people to run it @ 640x480 @ 32bpp, or at most 800x600 @ 24bpp, but because the OpenCores VGA driver is publicly documented i was able to work out how to put it into 8-bit mode (2 bits red, 3 bits green, 3 bits blue) and because of the reduced internal bus bandwidth of dropping to one byte per pixel i was actually able to drive all the way up to 1440x900! there is even a monochrome mode but i didn't investigate that.
so yeah, point is: Full HD (or any kind of 2D or 3D or Video acceleration at all) is *not* part of the EOMA68 hardware standard.
at some point i really want to do an Ingenic M150 EOMA68 card and see how low the BOM can really be pushed. it'll be a 2-layer PCB (!) because the M150 is designed for 2-layer. their EVB is postage-stamp-sized, it's pretty amazing.
l.
Good luck, Luke!
If the project is oriented to any public, perhaps I would do it more user-friendly.
Perhaps it may be interesting to add a video like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNR4zKqa6vI in the campaign but simpler. For example, put the EOMA-68, turn on, and run the graphical interface.
Is there any possibility of an EOMA-68 A20 with Android or RemixOS? Perhaps for the general public it is more friendly/well-know than GNU/Linux.
It would also be interesting to put sketches or drawings (more user-friendly) explaining the EOMA-68 concept.
Perhaps it can be also interesting set goals (if given money is enough). For example, develop an EOMA-68 with Intel x86 with Windows and/or GNU/Linux if it is possible.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 12:05 AM, GaCuest gacuest@gmail.com wrote:
Good luck, Luke!
If the project is oriented to any public, perhaps I would do it more user-friendly.
Perhaps it may be interesting to add a video like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNR4zKqa6vI in the campaign but simpler. For example, put the EOMA-68, turn on, and run the graphical interface.
i've got some of those.... i'm sure i did one. well, i'm about to do another :) it'll be going on an official update.
Is there any possibility of an EOMA-68 A20 with Android or RemixOS? Perhaps for the general public it is more friendly/well-know than GNU/Linux.
It would also be interesting to put sketches or drawings (more user-friendly) explaining the EOMA-68 concept.
yes - christopher would you like to do that? if anyone else wants to do a video with some explanation feel free okay!
Perhaps it can be also interesting set goals (if given money is enough). For example, develop an EOMA-68 with Intel x86 with Windows and/or GNU/Linux if it is possible.
*sigh* yeahhhh i knowwwww, i'm trying, but intel just shut down their smartphone and tablet division, which cuts off the ultra-low-power x86 SoCs they were doing. they *almost* got down to the right power band as well. bleugh.
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 12:05 AM, GaCuest gacuest@gmail.com wrote:
It would also be interesting to put sketches or drawings (more user-friendly) explaining the EOMA-68 concept.
yes - christopher would you like to do that? if anyone else wants to do a video with some explanation feel free okay!
Umm... not really. I'd need some pretty detailed direction, I'm not the sort of artist who can drum something up out of thin air. You don't have time to manage me ;) plus I can't draw figures (people) for crap.
Perhaps it can be also interesting set goals (if given money is enough). For example, develop an EOMA-68 with Intel x86 with Windows and/or GNU/Linux if it is possible.
Well, that sucks! I just got a MeeGoPad T02 the other day, looks nifty. Atom Z3735F. I'm hoping in the next few days to you know tinker with it some.
...x86 needs some true low-power options... that MeeGoPad BTW comes with a 10w rated power supply. If they don't kill / haven't killed that CPU completely, it might be worth looking into.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 12:41 AM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 12:05 AM, GaCuest gacuest@gmail.com wrote:
It would also be interesting to put sketches or drawings (more user-friendly) explaining the EOMA-68 concept.
yes - christopher would you like to do that? if anyone else wants to do a video with some explanation feel free okay!
Umm... not really. I'd need some pretty detailed direction, I'm not the sort of artist who can drum something up out of thin air. You don't have time to manage me ;) plus I can't draw figures (people) for crap.
haha ok :)
Perhaps it can be also interesting set goals (if given money is enough). For example, develop an EOMA-68 with Intel x86 with Windows and/or GNU/Linux if it is possible.
Well, that sucks! I just got a MeeGoPad T02 the other day, looks nifty. Atom Z3735F. I'm hoping in the next few days to you know tinker with it some.
yehhh the Z3735 series is the one they're killing off. grrrrr.
...x86 needs some true low-power options... that MeeGoPad BTW comes with a 10w rated power supply.
i know!!!! mad!!
If they don't kill / haven't killed that CPU completely, it might be worth looking into.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
yehhh the Z3735 series is the one they're killing off. grrrrr.
Well, that sucks :( there was some actual potential there. Go figure.
Also -- sent you something off-topic off-list. Check yer gmail when you get a few, please :)
alrightwilldo --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
yehhh the Z3735 series is the one they're killing off. grrrrr.
Well, that sucks :( there was some actual potential there. Go figure.
Also -- sent you something off-topic off-list. Check yer gmail when you get a few, please :)
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
'ey, Luke. I'm starting to get ideas (unsolicited from my brain) about maybe how to do some of those illustrations you were talking about. My WinXP box (needed for computer graphics... some companies don't understand yet the power of penguin ;) :P ) is set up right now so I can play with it a bit... I think I will. Should I send the results to your Gmail or to the list?
By the way, if anyone around here has /any/ technical experience with old Rio500 MP3 players --or can get me in touch with someone who does-- please contact me off-list. I have two that are the victims of bad formats, and I'd really like to get 'em working again. *@Luke* -- I know this isn't a topic for the list, and this will be its only mention by me here -- and it's only here because I'm desperate ;)
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
'ey, Luke. I'm starting to get ideas (unsolicited from my brain) about maybe how to do some of those illustrations you were talking about. My WinXP box (needed for computer graphics... some companies don't understand yet the power of penguin ;) :P ) is set up right now so I can play with it a bit... I think I will. Should I send the results to your Gmail or to the list?
list! let's work together.
First one --> http://i.imgur.com/BsDWLb3.jpg
10" x 7.5", done in CorelDRAW! X3. Fonts are Aero http://www.dafont.com/aero2.font and 13/5 Atom Sans http://www.dafont.com/13-5atom-sans.font, both free for all uses on DaFont. (Yes, it's true -- some fonts cannot be used for certain purposes without payment. Welcome to graphic design and advertising... ugh.)
...off-topic... For the curious, my graphics box is a rather heavily modified Fujitsu Siemens Futro S400 http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/Futro/s400/ thin client. It has an upgraded cooling system (fans!) and an 8gig SLC SSD (thanks to an amazing deal on eBay). Runs WinXP with no networking anything anywhere attached to it. I use a flash drive to shuttle between it and any other (networked) computer... it's not that bad. Modding thin clients into low-power desktops is fun, BTW -- and that linked site ("parkytowers") is freakin' amazing as a resource for that, er, hobby.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
First one --> http://i.imgur.com/BsDWLb3.jpg
that's frickin funny, i love it.
10" x 7.5", done in CorelDRAW! X3. Fonts are Aero and 13/5 Atom Sans, both free for all uses on DaFont. (Yes, it's true -- some fonts cannot be used for certain purposes without payment. Welcome to graphic design and advertising... ugh.)
blergh... yeah talk to dave crossman, he's working on that.
...off-topic... For the curious, my graphics box is a rather heavily modified Fujitsu Siemens Futro S400 thin client. It has an upgraded cooling system (fans!) and an 8gig SLC SSD (thanks to an amazing deal on eBay). Runs WinXP with no networking anything anywhere attached to it. I use a flash drive to shuttle between it and any other (networked) computer... it's not that bad. Modding thin clients into low-power desktops is fun, BTW -- and that linked site ("parkytowers") is freakin' amazing as a resource for that, er, hobby.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Here, have a little free advertising. Post here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107369 (you must login to see it) and screenshot here http://i.imgur.com/TKl58et.jpg. Luke, you might consider registering there since I can only answer questions so well ;) There's no requirements to post there, other than registration. (i.e. no "put your first post here OR ELSE" etc.)
Glad you like the arts, BTW :D
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Here, have a little free advertising. Post here (you must login to see it) and screenshot here. Luke, you might consider registering there since I can only answer questions so well ;) There's no requirements to post there, other than registration. (i.e. no "put your first post here OR ELSE" etc.)
oo great - i'm keeping a list of all the discussions.
Glad you like the arts, BTW :D
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
chris can i ask you a favour, could you find a keyring, a coffee mug, a t-shirt and an oval bumper-sticker on the internet that's WHITE on a WHITE background, and drop the word "EOMA68" onto each of them?
we need something fast for the marketing material.
l.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
chris can i ask you a favour, could you find a keyring, a coffee mug, a t-shirt and an oval bumper-sticker on the internet that's WHITE on a WHITE background, and drop the word "EOMA68" onto each of them?
we need something fast for the marketing material.
I'm on it ;)
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
chris can i ask you a favour, could you find a keyring, a coffee mug, a t-shirt and an oval bumper-sticker on the internet that's WHITE on a WHITE background, and drop the word "EOMA68" onto each of them?
we need something fast for the marketing material.
I'm on it ;)
hey guys, you'll love this i'm sure... http://rhombus-tech.net/crowdsupply/eoma68_fish.png
On 2016-07-07 at 18:41:36 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
hey guys, you'll love this i'm sure... http://rhombus-tech.net/crowdsupply/eoma68_fish.png
is it a good idea to enter *that* controversy?
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' elena.valhalla@gmail.com wrote:
On 2016-07-07 at 18:41:36 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
hey guys, you'll love this i'm sure... http://rhombus-tech.net/crowdsupply/eoma68_fish.png
is it a good idea to enter *that* controversy?
as a christian (who is deeply unimpressed with hierarchical religious human-based authority) my take on this is that christ would be both laughing hysterically at the triple-chain of satyre involved in the joke and at the same time be unconditionally loving and supportive of those who have a total mind-locked mind-unconcsious, pavlov's-dog-based, fundamentalist pathological and dogmatic sense of humour failure.
i did however decide that a quadruple-chain of satyre would be a bit much, so didn't use the flying spaghetti monster variant of this joke.
l.
https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1726&... https://www.google.com/search?biw=1726&bih=1472&tbm=isch&sa=1&am... https://www.google.com/search?biw=1726&bih=1472&tbm=isch&sa=1&am... https://www.google.com/search?biw=1726&bih=1472&tbm=isch&sa=1&am...
the one on deviantart probably for the t-shirt
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
chris can i ask you a favour, could you find a keyring, a coffee mug, a t-shirt and an oval bumper-sticker on the internet that's WHITE on a WHITE background, and drop the word "EOMA68" onto each of them?
we need something fast for the marketing material.
l.
Oval Window Sticker http://i.imgur.com/kFSy1XW.png and Source http://www.makestickers.com/customize.aspx?tid=7689 Bumper Sticker http://i.imgur.com/hOBs7fX.jpg and Source http://www.makestickers.com/customize.aspx?tid=5870 Keyring http://i.imgur.com/ZjjNggU.png and Source https://www.discountmugs.com/dmlab/design.php?save_design_id=6075825&sh_key=1467484934,f325dc67d6b12c6153613dedf9cb4888 Mug http://i.imgur.com/DBZ9tYZ.png and Source https://www.discountmugs.com/dmlab/design.php?save_design_id=6075838&sh_key=1467485255,ab039c897bebc064a80fdcee9e7d24d7 T-Shirt (Mens http://i.imgur.com/B4XJX57.png Ladies http://i.imgur.com/PLpV1qv.png) - source isn't available (eff you, Vistaprint) but it's not rocket science to redo them. (Font used is "Walcott Gothic Hollywood" at 150pt and the shirts are their "Basic" line. Whoopdeedoo.)
You do know cafepress http://www.cafepress.com/ is still around, right?
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Oval Window Sticker and Source
awesome!
Bumper Sticker and Source
mehhh... too plain.
Keyring and Source
love it!
Mug and Source
ok got enough to work with - thanks chris.
On 02/07/16 18:50, Christopher Havel wrote:
First one --> http://i.imgur.com/BsDWLb3.jpg
heh chuckle :D thats fun, i like it, well done too. the msg is so simple... yet presented like this, i feel it gets strong point across. I wouldn’t have thought of doing that :) good on ya
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Alexander .S.T. Ross -
Christopher Havel -
Elena ``of Valhalla'' -
GaCuest -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo -
Paul Boddie -
Stephen Paul Weber