On 09/09/16 19:37, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
certainly, pledges are "gifts" - there's no warranty, there's no contract of sale, they're *definitely* not "orders". that's very very important even in light of the fact that i'm here on a 90-day visa waiver! customs declaration *specifically* asked, "are you bringing in product for the solicitation of orders" and the *only* reason i was able to say *NO* to that was precisely because this is a gift-economy-based crowd-funding campaign.
I don't know anything about visa waivers, but it seems worth pointing out that Crowd Supply pledges do not appear to be gifts. They are covered by a contract: https://www.crowdsupply.com/terms-of-use
It says, among other things:
"Creator: a User responsible for running a Campaign, filling Pre-orders, or otherwise supplying products for commercial sale. [...]
A Creator is required to fulfill all Premiums of a Creator’s successful Campaign or refund Pledges to any Backer whose Premium the Creator does not or cannot fulfill.
A Creator may cancel and refund a Backer’s Pledge at any time and for any reason, and, in so doing, is not required to fulfill the Premium."
IANAL, but that looks quite a lot like a contract of sale to me.
Also, Crowd Supply definitely promotes itself as a store:
https://blog.crowdsupply.com/2013/03/04/crowd-supply-is-a-store/
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/12/09/crowd-supply-is-succeeding-where-ki...
I follow another crowd-funding campaign where manufacturing may have been done at levels to fulfil both pledges and orders from retailers, but then I start to wonder about things like warranties (and such): a "pledger" is getting a reward, but a customer through a retailer is getting a purchase that is presumably regulated rather differently.
yeahyeah. the moment that for example chris, my sponsor, starts *selling* through *his* web site (which he can now do as the contract period with crowdsupply is over), that *definitely* qualifies as "sales"
Now that the crowd-funding period is over, Crowd Supply has switched to offering pre-orders, which are distinct from pledges under the terms linked above. I have no idea what regulatory implications that has, if any.
Oddly, the wording around pre-orders seems to be more lax than the wording around pledges. Perhaps an oversight on the part of Crowd Supply or whoever drafted their terms of use.
- spk