On 05/10/2017 02:23 PM, Bill Kontos wrote:

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> wrote:

now that i think about it, i believe i heard of something about 20
years ago called the humanist society (or something like that).
apparently they live their lives according to a really quite [humane]
wonderful "code"... just without the bits about "god" attached.

so i'd say definitively yes, you can... it's just that you'd have to
choose to do so, and that can be really tough, to research, assess and
then make the decision to adhere to a particular code. it means
making changes in your life which might cost you friends, your job
(because the company asks you to do something that is against your
newly-chosen "code")...

Exactly this. I always prefer to do something by choice. Being manipulated is the one thing that I hate the most in life. But this takes time, and I have come to a very similar conclusion to this society you are talking about, that following 95% of the Christian ethics is a good idea because it makes for the most benefit for the society as a total. But I find having to believe that god exists and he will punish me for not following these ethics in order to be able follow them utterly pointless.

Well, I would say its not about, following these ethics perfectly, it is impossible to do so.

I would say the act of trying to be a good person and being faithful to him for the goodness he gives you is more important than always obeying especially if your heart is far from him. That's just my thought.

Punishment in particular though is something he gives to arrogant people who defy him while pretending to obey.

the current conservative party in America is an example of the pharisees from the bible.

They have nothing to look forward to that's a fact. Though they reject such possibilities in their heart bitterly and cling to their evil thoughts.

To be honest, even atheists have a better chance of getting into heaven than those false teachers.

Though both sides if they don't repent at some point, are lost.

This is my understanding of what hell is for. Not for the average person, but for those who pretend they are good and really are the opposite. to sum it up, hypocrisy.

Life is a challenge but hypocrisy is unneeded.

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