I do not have time for this debate now. I am "swamped" with work. I need to get other things done.
Sincerely, Chad. (:^)
On 16.9.9 10:42, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On ~~, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:02 PM, chadvellacott@sasktel.net wrote:
[No offense intended. (:^) ]none taken - we're all learning - let's have some fun with this.
Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones. "its" is _not_ a Relative Pronoun. Relative pronouns are "who what wherewhen why how whom whose".
oh! yes, sorry, you're right - i meant "possessive pronoun".
"it" is a Personal Pronoun, like "he she they". If it has a possessiveform, then that form is a Possessive Pronoun (like "theirs"), or else a Possessive Pronominal Adjective (like "their"). I guess that thou meant the concept of Possessive Pronoun, _not_ Relative Pronoun.
yes i did. let's take a look, google "its" and that comes up with two top links one for "its" and one for "it's". let's look at the one for "it's":
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/it-s
Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
contraction of it is: It's starting to rain.
contraction of it has: It's been a long time.
Can be confused it's, its (see confusables note at its )
interesting! i'll use that one in future, i didn't realise that "it's" can be a short-hand for "it has".
Definition:
"pronoun, nominative it, possessive its or (Obsoleteor Dialect) it, objective it; plural nominative they, possessive their or theirs, objective them."
so the word "it" is qualified as a "pronoun", and the word "its" is defined as a *possessive* pronoun.
the definition in merriam-webster is much less helpful but gives good examples: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/its
this one's i can see it's much more helpful: http://www.myenglishpages.com/site_php_files/grammar-lesson-possessive-adjec...
it's also showing that "its" is a possessive pronoun. i wonder why i said "relative pronoun" when in all other instances i've said "possessive"? huh.
But, I am not aware of any _other_ English word becoming possessive bymere "s" withOUT an apostrophe. So to decide that "its" is possessive, seems an unreasonable dogmatic "exception" to the general rule above.
it's explained here: https://www.writingforward.com/grammar/homophones/homophones-its-and-its
English usage has many UNreasonable "exceptions" to it's rules.ahhh! gotcha! you mean "english usage has many Unreasonable "exceptions" to its (possessive pronoun) rules" :)
So, English seems unreasonably difficult to learn as a second language.
it turns out that numbers, as an example, in all european languages, cause a huge amount of difficulty for children, resulting in significantly-delayed development of numerical arithmetic skills. in the far east, numbers are really *really* straightforward: 0-9 have their own word, you just read the digits out using those 0-9 words, to the point where on the HK stock exchange i heard that people are able to communicate at ten numbers *PER SECOND* which is phenomenal. my friend phil also pointed out to me the "flash-card" technique of training kids in japan as young as seven and eight to do six-digit mental arithmetic, where they're expected to have 100% accuracy on something mad like... i can't remember exactly what he said but i believe it was in excess of two six-digit sums *per second*. i may be underestimating there so as not to trip any "total disbelief verging on bullshit" mental radars.
in french, the number "98" is *five syllables* with a massive amount of physical effort required to morph the mouth between some of the syllables! qua-tre vingt dix huit. pronounced "ka-tr-uh va-i-ngg dee-ss-wh-ee-t" and translated in english "four-twenty ten-eight"!!
(This
is not "sour grapes". English is my first language, and I did _not_ have special trouble with it in school.) Are we unwilling, to abandon arbitrary "exceptions" so that others can more-easily learn _our_ _first_ language and communicate with _us_?
english is the international language for programming, and programming is about absolute clarity and precision. so in this *very specific* field... i'd say yes, absolutely.
*outside* of the world of computing, whilst it just makes people who should know better (such as in marketing), it just makes people "look dumb". i've seen both BT *and* Shell as recently as 10-15 years ago put up huge signs across all their stores in the UK make basic fundamental mistakes with the use of possessive pronouns.
http://www.copyblogger.com/5-common-mistakes-that-make-you-look-dumb/
but even if they "look dumb" it's not so critical - it's not so important in its level of clarity that a product be marketed in its best possible light, but it's clearly important in its level of security and effectiveness for a program to be at its most accurately specified and actioned, as well as being important that it's well-documented.
If a person means "it is", then that is nearly as easy to say and type,as "it's". (With typing on a "QWERTY", the difference is merely- thumb down on space-bar and next middle-finger sliding forward to "i", versus little finger awkwardly stretching outward to apostrophe.)
*ROTFL* yeah... the hilarious thing is: it's actually more physical effort to type the *correct* word "its" than it is to type the wrong phrase "it's" :)
I do not presume that I shall change any one else's mind on this. (But,considering all of the significant evidence that I am aware of, I will not change on this.)
... and you'd be perfectly within your right to self-determination to make such a declaration, and to continue to adhere to it for as long as you perceive it to be useful to you.
now, do allow me to summarise what *my* position is (from the above). as a hardware engineer in training, and a software engineer, clarity and unambiguity is absolute and paramount. one small mistake in hardware can cost $10,000 or even more. so with that training (and level of penalty for not getting it right) comes an in-built "radar' for pointing out *any* possible ambiguity, especially in written language. and that's why i really appreciated you pointing out the mistake that i made.
l.
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I do not have time for this debate now. I am "swamped" with work. I need to get other things done.
Sincerely, Chad. (:^)